@floota Julie, could Primal Scream have been in Judith Weston's Garden? If so, I was on the bus with Bill Watson, and I saw that clump of Primal Scream before the bus even stopped! I don't remember the year, but it was a regional at Charlotte, many, many years ago! I was seated with Bill and Ra Hansen, and they said no way could I know any daylily at such a distance! But sure enough, that was it!