Viewing post #915310 by DogsNDaylilies

Char said:How useful is the structured data that is gathered if all the variables are beyond what a computer can tell us? Not only do all the variables of growing daylilies come into question, but add in those of the "user" filling out the form. The data may be structured, but of very little value.

Then, I ask again, why does ATP and AHS even bother with registering and displaying bud/branch count if it is so useless?

Char said:
Yes, I would consider myself more "expert" on the topic of fragrance than the average ATP user. And I can smell my daylilies just fine Thank You.

It would appear I struck a nerve and, if so, I'm sorry. I have no bones to pick with you and I never thought that I was questioning your ability to smell a daylily; but I don't see how fragrance is such a difficult topic here and why it is something that only the experts can guage. When I go into my garden, I can tell you without looking at the database that my Jim's Pick is very fragrant, my Starman's Quest is fragrant (although, strangely, not so on rare days), and that there is no fragrance to my Olallie Red. I don't feel that I need an 'expert' to tell me that. But, if we are going to leave that matter only to the 'experts', then we need to establish what qualifies someone as an expert on fragrance. Ten years of owning daylilies? Twenty? At what point does someone qualify themselves as expert sniffers?

Char said:
So you, as a newbie, think you have the right to question if someone else has or is qualified to do a sniff test on a daylily, but if you mark one fragrant we are suppose to take that info as reliable. What about all this other info you want folks to fill out? Would we be wasting our time because yoiu are going to question if we know what we are doing? Sorta makes your form a mute point doesn't it?

I'm confused by this. I'm not questioning nor have I previously questioned you when you say a daylily is or isn't fragrant. If you tell me that you don't have a good sense of smell, though, then I might question daylilies you have listed as 'not fragrant', I suppose. I'm not questioning your sense of smell, though. I am sorry, but I really am confused by this statement.

Char said:
Guess I don't see why this thread has gone on as long as it has.

...Because there is clearly an interest present. (As a side note, how would you feel if someone said that about a thread topic you were interested in? I don't think you meant this to be provocative, so I'm going to assume you didn't, but please understand that if the shoe were on the other foot, it might be taken as the 'rude' behavior that you are suggesting we are treating the experts in this forum with. We care about this topic, which is why it has gone on so long. Please respect our interest in the matter. )

Char said:
the few who have replied have been largely or completely ignored and now treated rudely....(great way to introduce yourself to a website forum by the way )

That hurts. I'm not sure who you're referring to that we've ignored. I simply haven't had time to reply to everyone, but I had the impression that everyone was equally observed. Did you post something earlier that we didn't see? Or to which 'ignored' post are you referring? (I've had a few of my own posts 'ignored' in this thread...it just happens sometimes.)

I don't feel there has been much rudeness at all going on in this thread, so I am sorry that you feel there has. If you feel any of it was directed at you or a generalized 'you' as experts (a category to which I am assuming you belong), then I think I speak for everyone who has participated in this conversation when I say "sorry about that." I genuinely don't think any ill will was intended. I got a little terse when my ability to smell things seemed to be called into question because, to me, if a fragrance is there, it's there. There was some pushback on my part because I feel as though my integrity as a sniff-checker was being called into question, but I meant no rudeness whatesoever.

Char said:
as the conversation has rambled on. How many hands did you get for folks willing to take the time out of their already busy day and all to short bloom season to fill out your form?

I'm not so sure I would say that this thread has "rambled on" any more than any other thread, however, and I think we all feel that something useful is starting here. I'm sorry you don't agree. Again, I would ask that you please respect our interests in the matter. There are some things in the database that aren't of great interest or use to me, but I don't feel it right to suggest that they are 'ramblings' or 'useless' information.

Char said:
Daylilies are living things, they are not predictable, they live, they die, they grow well one year and maybe not another, in your garden one struggles while 1/2 a mile down the road it is outstanding.
We already have a comments section in the database, perfect to enter the data the newbies crave. People who enter info get an acorn. Yet folks do not take the time to make comments...now you want them to fill out a form after they spend how much time gathering all the info to fill it out..in their garden, other gardens...

No one's making you do it, Char, LoL! :-P ...but for anyone willing to fill out the information, just think about it....it could be really useful information! ...particularly over time as more and more information is added to the database.

Char said:
The majority of daylilies will have between 2 and 4 branches when grown in the average garden, 5 buds per branch, 10 to 20 buds on a scape. If you like the look of the bloom, look in the database for the registration information, check the AHS Popularity Poll results for your region, buy it, try it. Grow it 3 years then decide if it is worthy of a space in YOUR garden.

I can't purchase every red out there. There have to be determining factors. Bud/branch count are two biggies. I bought Jungle Beauty because of it's wonderful scapes, high bud count, and great branching. If I just looked at a picture of it online, though, I likely wouldn't have felt compelled to purchase it because it'd just be another black-red daylily. I feel like I'm having to repeat myself a lot on this, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt and assume that it's one of the parts you didn't get a chance to read in this thread.

We all have our own reasons for wanting this additional information, but clearly the AHS thinks that bud/branching is worthy of counting, so I don't understand why you are pushing back so hard on this topic. Yes, there might be some variation between gardens. Great! The more data we submit to a database on this--not a comments section that a database can't read/interpret for mass results--the better of a feel we can get for differences between cultivars, regions, etc...

Taking a 'well everything's different' approach to this matter won't help enlighten anyone.

Here's an example: Researchers who do studies on people to determine the affects of a drug know that everyone taking the drug has different diets, different metabolisms, different....well, everything! They gather a lot of data over time, though, and soon trends start to emerge from which they can deduce certain things. They don't just throw in the towel from the beginning and say 'there's too many variables, let's not bother.'

I think this is worthwhile.