Thanks for the comments, Della. I'm still learning with regards to appropriate amounts of watering - which is only made more complicated by the fact that the bags and pots dry out at different rates under different conditions. I know a lot of people open the bags and water them, but I am having better success with leaving them sealed to keep moisture levels reasonably stable.

So it's probably a few more weeks away before I can reasonably expect candidum to germinate (which probably is around the time most of the winter glads would germinate...some tristis and tristis hybrids have sprouted but it's still a bit on the warm side).

While there was a heatwave, that probably made things worse summer temps up here are usually pretty high up here. Some things are really unaffected by it like snapdragons (who'd have thought) while other things completely die (pansies, but they self seed easily so they always come back).

While I wouldn't rule out dampening off the others are a bit more suspect....sealed baggies with boiled coconut coir. So far none of the species freesia have sucuumb to the same fate and they started terminating about three weeks ago

dellac said: I guess that implies some kind of allelopathy caused by under-composted plant matter?

If undercomposted is the problem - tried it, been there, done that. I thought that a mix like that, that would drain so excellently and still be rich in nutrients would be the cat's meow. But I too, realized too late that the "composted bark" in the mix wasn't at all finished composting. With my first test pots, I tried Miracle-gro liquid fertilizer (so fast acting) half strength - no results. (And I really dowsed them, too.) At the seven day mark I applied again, and after seven more days plants seem to be better. I applied the half strength once more and finally they started to grow. So with the rest, I applied full strength, and seven days later half strength. I still had to fertilize those pots much more, later that year, but not like the initial wallop.

I have always been stingy on adding fertilizer. I am content with stuff growing slower but sturdier. Prior to adding the fertilizer above, nothing was added before. For me at least, the key was to get enough nitrogen in the soil ecosystem so that all the nitrogen wasn't tied up by composting.

Don't worry Joshua, it isn't the easiest balance the find. One must really plant thousands and thousands of lily seeds and practice until the world is covered in lilies! Then everything will be roses.

Protoavis, I really hope your freesia started germinating rather than "terminating". ;D Fingers crossed for the rest of your lily seed to to come up. I don't worry now about losing a proportion of seedlings, as I just figure nature's weeding out the weak, but when it was my first crop I remember every little seedling counted!

Rick, I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought "oohh, composted bark - has to be good"! But after having a great season the year before, with the best-ever seedling growth in homemade media that had absolutely NO "composted" bark... well, I should have known better. Twice bitten

I'm obviously over timid about fertilizing 'sick' seedlings. I used a dilute liquid mix on the sick boxes every 3-4 weeks over summer and that was as much as I dared. I mean, figuring the seedlings never greened up and grew, I might have decided I could have gotten a little heavier with the food. Think I'll go out and drench them now.

Thumbs and tiny mobile screen keys :P

I've already had more lilies germinate than I was anticipating, unless im dealing with F2 (meaning I've deliberately crossed things with specific goal/s in mind....at F2 I'm willing to go into the serveral hundred to pick out what I was aiming for because I know it'll be only be around 10 in 500 that meet my requirements...ie I'm crossing a night fragrant glad with a day fragrant that changes colour based on day or night....goal both day and night fragrances with the colour change and a few other traits) I'm happy if just 3 live to flower....so these 20+ lots of lilium sprouts are not a huge loss if a few don't make it as I'll likely cull down to three when they flower anyway.

You know what you're doing.

Amazed at how much they can grow. Think most will need to be spring planted

Great work, Dave! These are all the first true leaf?

Yes. With the exception of some that ate germinated later. Actually most are into their second leaf

These are exceptionally nice and healthy, Dave.

@Nhra_20 - Dave, I'm impressed with how well your seedlings are doing. I noticed that you transplanted them from bags into pots; may I ask what media you're using and whether you're fertilising (if so, with what and how often)?

I've learnt enough to get seeds to germinate well now, but the leaves never get very big - even the oldest seedlings I've got, the 'Golden Trumpets' strain from Hill View Rare Plants (started in April last year when I didn't realise they would germinate as IE), are still very small. It wasn't until Spring (September) that any sent up their first true leaf - the last one took until December. I transplanted the first few in August when their cotyledons died back; the rest over the following few months. I added a small amount of fertiliser ("Lilium fertiliser" from Golden Ray Gardens) early this year, which took about two months to break down completely. The photo below is from mid-March - they're still about the same size now.



Basically, I want to be doing a lot better with my seedlings and I'm trying to work out what the difference is between mine and everyone else's. There are many possible factors - light, temperature, water, fertiliser, media, etc.

Any advice from anyone would be much appreciated.

Joshua,

The media I planted everything in is called Fafard 3b, now called sungro I believe. I do fertilize about every 3-4 waterings, with a balanced fertilizer of 10-10-10. I did do one watering with a 10-30-10 mix couple of weeks ago. I have also used mycorrhizae innoculants. Granular when I transplanted from baggies to pots, liquid in my waterings now and then.

Of your media is soilless, fertilizer will be needed, especially one with micronutrients in it. And even in a soil mix, just more diluted. They are heavy feeders.

Thanks Dave. My initial media in the bagless is vermiculite, perlite and Debco seed-raising mix (mostly sand). Once in pots they're in a potting mix/garden soil mix, which does lack fertiliser. It seems I could up the amount of fertilising.

Dave - is this the media you use? http://www.sungro.com/professi...

That is not the media I would have thought of using for bulbs, but if it's working, great!

Yes that is it. This stuff also has a small amount of silica, which is said to increase stalk size and strength. Not sure if that is the case though

Australis said:Thanks Dave. My initial media in the bagless is vermiculite, perlite and Debco seed-raising mix (mostly sand). Once in pots they're in a potting mix/garden soil mix, which does lack fertiliser. It seems I could up the amount of fertilising.

Josh - a plants growth can be limited by a number of things. Fertilizer (specific nutrients in the correct proportions) is certainly something the plant needs to grow at an optimum rate. I have been coached on the "weakly weekly" mode of fertilization. I use a 1/4 strength 20-20-20 with micros granular powder that dissolves in water and every time I water I use this (about once a week). I also bottom water - set up a bucket filled with the solution and set the pots in it and let them drink up the solution from the bottom for about 5 - 10 minutes. I water when the pots "feel" pretty light (mostly dry). For pots where there are only a few seedlings, they don't use the water very fast but pots where I sowed too densely the pots dry out very quickly. I have also been coached to crowd the seedlings as they do better so I try to err on the side of too crowded.

Another critical factor is light. I believe Dave invested in a pretty strong light system - it wasn't clear what type of lighting you are using. Are your seedlings under lights or are you using natural light? I am currently using the cheap 4' double bulb T8 shop lights and run then 24-7. If you run stronger lights light the T5 systems you can cycle them on-off with 14 to 18 hours on per day.

I will bet you need some extra fertilizer, too, Joshua. Especially if what I see in your pot is the "soil" you are using, and not a mulchy material added on top.

I'm not sure how well you can tell when the fertilizer has completely broken down. In addition to the different forms of nitrogen presented, generally, slow release fertilizers are slow release because the nutrients are coated with various thicknesses of sulfur, which is the slow release facilitator. As the sulfur coating breaks down, the nutrients inside are released. Thicker sulfur coatings mean more delayed release. But what happens is once the coating is breeched, the nutrients "spill" out, regardless of how decompose the rest of the sulfur coating is. This is the hollow partially (or fully) broken balls you have probably noticed in the soil.

For this reason, I've never ventured a opinion about if a slow release fertilizer is as slow release as a manufacturer claims. I just believe the label.

Thanks Patrick and Rick.

Yes, the "soil" you can see in the photo is what is in that pot (don't worry, I've already reached the conclusion I need a better media for future pots some time ago!). I started with this because it tended to drain quite well.

I am using natural light. The spot I've currently got most of my outdoor seedlings gets good morning light and then is protected from the peak heat of the day before getting the late afternoon/early evening sun.

I share that feeling that comes from looking at struggling, malnourished seedlings sitting in a pot of rubbish mix! There should be a special name for it. Something like

Anyone have any idea here? Ice Caves x Griesbach 4N yellow picotee. Only one leaf in the pot is doing this. Seems to be a healthy leaf, heavy substance and kind of a wax like texture. I water maybe once a week, usually when the pots get really light and media separates from the edges of the pot. Lights are 18 inches above set on a 14 hour on cycle.