I like that idea Chelle
a category could be made seeds for postage in ones list
do you know if a plant can be put in more than one list

Thanks, Chelle, I do have 6 kinds of seed listed there.
Can you see them using this link? It says "this is how others see your list".

http://garden.org/lists/view/R...

P.S. One way I envision this working is that someone sees a seed I have that is NOT in the "for postage" category and asks for it. I would be willing to trade that "cherished" seed if they contribute to a general pool of sharable seeds.

RickCorey said:Thanks, Chelle, I do have 6 kinds of seed listed there.
Can you see them using this link? It says "this is how others see your list".

http://garden.org/lists/view/R...

Yep. Now we can see them by using the link.

Corey, your suggestion is very good, but how do we keep track to avoid people getting a lot of free seeds. In this way people can ask seeds from everyone who is offering free seeds for postage, so gready people are invited that way. I love to contribute seeds, but I had a lot of bad experiences with gready people.
Maybe we must ask Dave how to solve it. I'm not good in software, but I think about something like the acorns. Hope that Dave understands what I mean. Every new member will get a certain amount of free seeds for postage once and every existing member will get a certain amount of free seeds for postage every year.

Trading something like acorns for "free" seeds sounds good to me if it sounds good to Dave! (Perhaps then, if someone contributed 20 pkts of unusual seeds, they could be given extra seed-acorns in return, to use themselves or give away.)

I was assuming that each donor who sent OUT seeds to new ATP members would have to send a Tree mail to some central person who would subtract that many packets from that member's allotment, and publish it to other donors.. That seems like a lot of work! I didn't b ring that up because I wouldn't volunteer until after I retire!

Here's another possibility, that shifts most of the work on to Dave

Dave: would it be desirable to create a seeds-for-postage databas, to trac k how many pkts have been sent out and how many members are entitled to ask for?

Jonna suggested:
- Existing members - 10 free packets a year (Not more than 5 packets from one person)
- New members - 30 packets once (Not more than 10 packets from one person)
- All members must pay postage.
- Make exceptions for people in special situations.

This idea is based on a finite number of volunteer "seed donors" who would list seeds they had multiple pkts of, available to ATP members free for postage. I was thinking, use a specific name for a "Category" within their Plant List.

Database features:
1 - one record for each member, listing how many "pkts for postage" they are entitled to request
2 - all those member records would be visible to every "donor" so they check for excessive seed-greed
3 - each member's own record would be visible to THAT member (or maybe public?)
4 - populate the record with "30 pkts available to request" when they join,
5 - for everyone, add 10 pkts (or increase the number up to a max of 10) once each year
6.a - allow "seed donor members" to reduce the # of entitled pkts when they send seeds out
6.b - or the seed donor submits a request to a moderated queue: "I sent N pkts to Susan, so deduct N from her record"

Other features:
- a page of links to donors' Plant List Categories with the exact name "Seeds For Postage"
- anyone who creates a Plant List Category with the exact right name would be added automatically to the page of links,
- (or do that only by request to Dave or a moderator)
- a way to enter and track requests for specific seeds from specific donors
- maybe a way to track "in the mail" and "received"
- maybe a voluntary Address database

The basic use case would be:

new member is allotted 30 pkts.
new member scans many donors' lists of "Seeds for Postage"
new member requests 1--10 pkts from one donor
* donor checks the SFP database to be sure that he/she has not already requested 300 pkts
donor agrees & confirms availability & gets address
* donor deducts that many pkts from that member's record in the SFP database
member sends postage
donor sends seeds
(donor checks "in the mail" in the data base)
member receives seeds
(member checks "received" in the database.)

(Repeat for next donor. Some donors with unusual amounts of spare time they can donate might volunteer to be "super-donors" and hold bulk seed from other donors, to centralize the postage when people request pkts.)

Upkeep:

1. Donors would have to keep their "Seeds For Postage" categories up to date, or at least list
"# pkts left when last updated mm/dd/yyyy"

I think that could go into the comment field of the plant, but it might tend to get lost amongst the description and cultural info. How do you feel about the "Seeds For Postage" Category and display page having extra fields and columns for "3 left" and "date counted"?


2. Maybe the address needs to be part of the database record, to catch the one seed-greedy person in a million who would rejoin 10 times under the same name to get 300 pkts of seeds. Of course, paying postage would cost them 23 cents per pkt - perhaps enough in itself to deter hypothetical scammers!

JonnaSudenius said:
Maybe we must ask Dave how to solve it. I'm not good in software, but I think about something like the acorns.

That's a great idea. Would it work if every new member received 10 "seedpacket" icons along with the initial acorns? Then, every time they asked a member for a type of seed, a "seedpacket" could be deducted from their account. Also, maybe existing members could get xx amount of "seedpackets" in their account once per year.....

I apologize for interjecting - I was typing when you were posting and did not see it. My apologies!

Would there be a minimum/maximum seed count to send? I sometimes buy seed by the ounce and then end up using relatively few (especially when germination is excellent) but would feel odd inundating someone with a huge amount. On the flip side, I would want to be sure that I sent enough seed so that someone did not feel cheated. Would we note on our pages the # of seeds per package or ????

Don't apologize for interjecting - I think the seedpacket (similiar to acorn) idea is a good one. That takes a lot of the db management out of it. Just like I can send acorns to Rick, if I choose, I could send him a seedpacket (or 3). Dave could set the system up to automatically add x number of seedpackets to each user's profile on 12/31 (or on Christmas?). When you're out of seedpackets, you're done getting free seeds until the next seedpackets are distributed.

That's a great idea. I especially like the idea of being able to send seedpackets to someone else. When I first joined, a very kind member sent me acorns as a welcome. I would like to be able to do the same with seeds.

Hi Old Gard!

We cross-posted but please don't apologize. Especially since we're all brainstorming.

>> if every new member received 10 "seedpacket" icons
>> I especially like the idea of being able to send seedpackets to someone else.

I like "virtual pkts", if Dave thinks it's the way to go. The database does sound like work to create, and work to maintain.

>> Would there be a minimum/maximum seed count to send?
>> Would we note on our pages the # of seeds per package or ????

Probably there should be some generally-agreed-upon guidelines or advice, but everyone will do what they please.

I like the idea of each donor saying what's in each pkt (especially if there is a column for it, distinct from the plant description that is visible in the Plant database. Like "Trading Info". For example: "30 seeds unless you warn me in mid-summer, than I'll save you an ounce".

The person requesting could negotiate for more or say they're happy with less.

Some swaps say "more than 20" commercial seeds, but that seems more suited to rare or purchased seeds than (for example) home-saved Zinnias. Tomatoes and peppers often seem to have lower seed-counts than other crops, maybe because tomato plants are so big. I've seen a count of "10 or more" in tomato swaps.

We could list approx # of seeds, or volume (1/8 tsp, 1/64 tsp, 1 tablespoon), or weight. I usually split using a set of mini-measuring spoons, but if I want to make all pkts the same, I use a little scale I have.

I know that when I collected seeds from my Italian leaf broccoli patch that bolted, I wound up with OUNCES of seeds, and split them into some 1/2 tsp pkts. (Hundreds of seeds?)

But commercial seeds where I only have half a pkt of biggish seeds left over might get 1/8 tsp = 30 seeds.

Or a dust-like seed like petunia might be too small to count and less than 1/64th tsp!
I know that when I buy fancy Viola seeds, the whole pkt is too small to measure and the seeds are too small to count. Maybe list it as "around 1/3" of Swallowtail's pkt"?

Maybe for big-seeded crops, suggest a size of one pkt = 10 or 20 feet of row at the recommended spacing. But is that sowing every 2" and thinning to 12", or starting 1/6th as many seeds in trays and transplanting them out at 12" spacing? One way is 10-20 seeds, the other is 60-120 seeds.

Rick, aren't you making it too much work? Why make Dave create another database/tracking system when we have something in place that will probably do the job with minimal tweaking?

We already have a plant list that gives us the ability to say that we have seeds to share. Simply add a checkbox on the list mgmt screen that says "trade for seedpacket." New users figure out the acorn system pretty quickly - they'd figure out the seedpacket system quickly, too. The seed-owner could put comments on his/her seeds in his/her list re:how many seeds you'd get for a seedpacket.

I agree that virtual pkts would have much less overhead work to maintain than a database would.

and I'm a big fan of over-simplifying, so you have to factor that in....

I think OldGardener's idea is excellent!
And maybe it could be set up so that members who send out seed packets got acorns in return? And maybe an exchange where acorns could be traded in for seedpackets?

fiwit said:
We already have a plant list that gives us the ability to say that we have seeds to share. Simply add a checkbox on the list mgmt screen that says "trade for seedpacket."

I like this! So I am sure that I understand, I could go to my plant list, add or edit a plant to/in my plant list and select "Trade for seedpacket" like this?


Plant: Abelia (Abelia grandiflora Sunshine Daydream)

Status: Have

Available for trade as:
Plants
Seeds
Cuttings
Roots
Seed Packet

Available for sale as:
Plants
Seeds
Cuttings
Roots

Categories:
Iris
Shrubs and Trees
SeedPacket

What if when you checked the "Available for trade as .... SeedPacket", the site automatically added that plant to the SeedPacket Category? That way, when someone looks at my plant list, they can click on that category and see what is available rather than scrolling through pages of plants (similar to clicking on Iris, Shrubs/Trees, etc.)? I believe then, my plant list would look like this??


Abelia(Abelia grandiflora Sunshine Daydream) Have
Shrubs and Trees
SeedPacket (or icon for SeedPacket)
--

Mimosa Tree (Albizia julibrissin) Have
Shrubs and Trees
SeedPacket (or icon for SeedPacket)
--

Aquatic Canna Lily (Canna 'Ra') Have
Bog and Pond


etc. I think the icon might work better in the status column - easier to see?

Again, my apologies... I cannot seem to get the Status column to align correctly.

I was adding more plants to my list this morning and was wondering if this would work?


Plant: Abelia (Abelia grandiflora Sunshine Daydream)

Status: Have

Available for trade as:
Plants
Seeds
Cuttings
Roots

Available for sale as:
Plants
Seeds
Cuttings
Roots

Available as: [seedpacket icon]

Categories:
Iris
Shrubs and Trees
[SeedPacket icon]

It would also be cool if INSIDE the plant database, one of the "statuses" was "available for [SeedPacket icon]". There's a row for each member who has the plant or seed.

» 2 members have this plant.

That would be a great option! I really like that!!