Plant Database forum: Please help with determining species

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Name: Joanne
Calgary, AB Canada (Zone 3a)
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Joannabanana
Nov 21, 2012 10:21 AM CST
There is a proposal in the petunia database to add species x atkinsiana


This may become very confusing for people. It is my understanding that " x hybrida" is synonymous to x atkinsiana
I do see some series that do have x atkinsiana as the species: Gioconda, Surfinia, Ultra, Celebrity, Fantasy and Storm.
I put the Celebrities in as x hybrida. Do you think they should be name edited to have species changed to x atkinsiana?
If we leave them as x hybrida, the database will be easier to search by the alphabet. If we change the species, then the list will have a alpha group of x atkinsiana and then an alpha group by x hybrida

Anyone have a clarification or advisement?
Name: Carole
Clarksville, TN (Zone 6b)
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SongofJoy
Nov 21, 2012 10:25 AM CST
Petunia x hybrida is accepted (I think). Petunia x atkinsinia is an accepted species.
The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched -- they must be felt with the heart. ~ Helen Keller
[Last edited by SongofJoy - Nov 21, 2012 10:41 AM (+)]
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Name: Joanne
Calgary, AB Canada (Zone 3a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Region: Canadian Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Roses
Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Annuals Container Gardener Vegetable Grower Winter Sowing Enjoys or suffers cold winters
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Joannabanana
Nov 21, 2012 10:28 AM CST
X hybrida is what is on all the patents that I have looked at. I do believe it is accepted. I see that different google search results say x hybrida is syn. for x atkinsiana. Anyone know for sure?
[Last edited by Joannabanana - Nov 21, 2012 10:31 AM (+)]
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Name: Carole
Clarksville, TN (Zone 6b)
Cherish today
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar
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SongofJoy
Nov 21, 2012 10:35 AM CST
Both are accepted species, I believe.
The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched -- they must be felt with the heart. ~ Helen Keller
Name: Joanne
Calgary, AB Canada (Zone 3a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Region: Canadian Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Roses
Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Annuals Container Gardener Vegetable Grower Winter Sowing Enjoys or suffers cold winters
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Joannabanana
Nov 21, 2012 10:37 AM CST
To avoid confusion, let's keep all the hybrids as x hybrida
Name: Carole
Clarksville, TN (Zone 6b)
Cherish today
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar
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SongofJoy
Nov 21, 2012 10:44 AM CST
Tropicos and ITIS have Petunia x atkinsinia as an accepted species.
The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched -- they must be felt with the heart. ~ Helen Keller
Name: Carole
Clarksville, TN (Zone 6b)
Cherish today
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar
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SongofJoy
Nov 21, 2012 10:46 AM CST
I'm sure one of the plant admins will be along to make a final determination. Smiling
The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched -- they must be felt with the heart. ~ Helen Keller
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
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valleylynn
Nov 21, 2012 12:01 PM CST
Can it be added as another name entry, as a synonym? Then it can be search by either name.
Name: Carole
Clarksville, TN (Zone 6b)
Cherish today
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar
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SongofJoy
Nov 21, 2012 12:54 PM CST
Well, now I'm seeing that Petunia hybrida is the most accepted. Some references accept Petunia X hybrida but ITIS does not (says it's a synonym).

The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched -- they must be felt with the heart. ~ Helen Keller
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
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zuzu
Nov 21, 2012 2:42 PM CST

Plants Admin

Tee's correct: Petunia x hybrida is only a synonym of Petunia hybrida and is not an accepted name.

Petunia x atkinsiana is a separate species and is not synonymous with Petunia hybrida.
Name: Joanne
Calgary, AB Canada (Zone 3a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Region: Canadian Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Roses
Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Annuals Container Gardener Vegetable Grower Winter Sowing Enjoys or suffers cold winters
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Joannabanana
Nov 21, 2012 3:56 PM CST
Sad

I guess it all depends which document you look at. Does someone have a list of the varieties that are actually x atkinsiana?
Name: Joanne
Calgary, AB Canada (Zone 3a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Region: Canadian Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Roses
Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Annuals Container Gardener Vegetable Grower Winter Sowing Enjoys or suffers cold winters
Image
Joannabanana
Nov 21, 2012 3:59 PM CST
This site says it is syn with x hybrida

http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?462920
Name: Carole
Clarksville, TN (Zone 6b)
Cherish today
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar
Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Cat Lover Avid Green Pages Reviewer Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Birds
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SongofJoy
Nov 21, 2012 4:13 PM CST
We've been using this site: http://www.itis.gov/ It doesn't show any varieties of Petunia X atkinsiana. Just the one species.

The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched -- they must be felt with the heart. ~ Helen Keller
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
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zuzu
Nov 21, 2012 4:28 PM CST

Plants Admin

That GRIN site says Petunia x hybrida is a synonym of Petunia x atkinsiana, Joanne, not the other way around.

http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?102385
Name: Joanne
Calgary, AB Canada (Zone 3a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Region: Canadian Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Roses
Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Annuals Container Gardener Vegetable Grower Winter Sowing Enjoys or suffers cold winters
Image
Joannabanana
Nov 21, 2012 4:32 PM CST
All I want to know is how much work is it going to be to change all the ones in the database. I'm working on the Supertunias right now and they are all hybrids. So I've been putting them in as x hybrida for the species. Is this wrong?
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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zuzu
Nov 21, 2012 4:36 PM CST

Plants Admin

Looks like GRIN trumps ITIS. Unless I'm mistaken, the ITIS info was last updated in 2011 and GRIN was updated in 2012. I hate it when these sites don't agree. Angry
Name: Carole
Clarksville, TN (Zone 6b)
Cherish today
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar
Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Cat Lover Avid Green Pages Reviewer Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Birds
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SongofJoy
Nov 21, 2012 4:37 PM CST
Yes, it does appear that way. Rolling my eyes.
The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched -- they must be felt with the heart. ~ Helen Keller
Name: Carole
Clarksville, TN (Zone 6b)
Cherish today
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar
Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Cat Lover Avid Green Pages Reviewer Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Birds
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SongofJoy
Nov 21, 2012 4:41 PM CST
Now what happens if ITIS updates and leaves it the way they have it?

The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched -- they must be felt with the heart. ~ Helen Keller
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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zuzu
Nov 21, 2012 4:42 PM CST

Plants Admin

Joanne, if you decide on a blanket change -- a change from Petunia x hybrida to Petunia x atkinsiana across the board, for example -- Dave can write a program to change all of them at once, so it won't take a lot of work on your part.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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zuzu
Nov 21, 2012 4:50 PM CST

Plants Admin

Tee, that does happen. Crying Then we have to decide which site is more reliable, I suppose.

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