How about Dave scripting this showing Petunia × atkinsiana as accepted and P. hybrida and P. x hybrida as synonyms?

Ugh, never mind.

I'm going to bow out but Petunia X atkinsiana wasn't even in the database until I added it this morning. I was thinking it was a single species. I didn't mean to make Joanne's work load heavier.

I do not agree at all that these hybrids are all x atkinsiana. However, I have looked at hundreds of patent documents and x hybrida is what they use. I have only seen x atkinsiana on some European sites this morning when Tee entered it in the database and I researched it. On those sites it states the two are syn.

For the time being I'm going to leave x hybrida as the species choice for these hybrids. If it will require a change, then it will be easier if they are all x hybrida.

Found out more info:

x atkinsiana is a "nothospecies". I would like to stick with x hybrida for the time being

What is the source?

I was bowing out but we do have more than a few Europeans and other nationalities that use our site and names that they are familiar with should be included as well, at least as synonyms, and especially if listed in ITIS and the other sources.

Just my two cents worth.

Good night, ya'll.

Have you seen this? http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bi...

Aren't both x atkinsiana and x hybrida "nothospecies"? Interspecific crosses?

What are you showing us, Lynn? I get a mostly blank page with the USDA logo at the top.

Nothospecies: A hybrid which is formed by direct hybridization of two species, not other hybrids

Hope this ones comes through okay. It lists 21 different plants under Petunia x atkinsiana
National Plant Germplasm System (USDA/ARS)
accessions of
Petunia ×atkinsiana (Sweet) D. Don ex W. H. Baxter
http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bi...

click for both NPGS accessions and Include images and historical accessions for the first List Button.

Are you finding references that indicate x hybrida is not a nothospecies?

I got a list of 95 when I clicked on NPGS accessions. Include images and historical accessions sorted by name.

G 28567 Admiral Improved
G 28617 Allegro (!!)
G 28640 America (!!)
G 28629 Aztec (!!)
G 28554 Balcony Royal Rose (**)
G 28587 Ballerina (**)
G 28594 Ballet Mix (!!)
G 28579 Bingo (!!)
G 28590 Bingo (Inbred) (!!)
G 28568 Blue Bedder Improved
G 28593 Blue Lace (!!)
G 28608 Blue Magic (!!)
G 28597 Bluebell (!!)
G 28572 Bodgers Special Mixture (**)
G 28583 Calypso (!!)
G 28598 Capri (!!)
G 28619 Caprice (!!)
G 28639 Cardinal (!!)
G 28645 Carnival
G 28600 Cavalier (!!)
G 28638 Cherry Tart (!!)
G 28606 Chiffon (!!)
G 28559 Choice Mixed Ramon Strain
G 28575 Colorama Mixed
G 28621 Comanche
G 28626 Comet (!!)
G 28601 Crusader (!!)
G 28569 Elks Star
G 28573 Extra Dwarf Giants Mixed
G 28605 Fandango (!!)
G 28581 Fire Dance (!!)
PI 148542 Flaming Valvet (!!)
G 30597 G 30597
G 28614 Glorious Shades of Rose (!!)
G 28637 Honey Bunch (!!)
G 28553 Howard's Star Improved
PI 148543 Igloo (!!)
G 28627 Inca (!!)
NSL 96919 KING HENRY (**)
G 28586 La Paloma (!!)
G 28596 Lavender Lace (!!)
G 28633 Linda (!!)
G 28562 Little Giants Mixed Colors (**)
G 28618 Lyric (!!)
G 28580 Maestro (!!)
G 28630 Mars (!!)
G 28561 Martha Washington
G 28574 Masterpiece (**)
G 28592 Matador (Toreador) (!!)
G 28591 Maytime (!!)
G 28635 Mercury (!!)
G 28578 Minuet (!!)
PI 148544 Mitchhell's Dwarf Elk's Price (!!)
G 28631 Neptune (!!)
G 28565 New Horizon (**)
G 28564 New Popcorn
G 28616 Nocturne (!!)
G 28634 Paleface (!!)
G 28582 Pink Cascade (**)
G 28604 Pink Cheeks (!!)
G 28576 Pink Desire
G 28563 Pink Frills
G 28584 Pink Lace (!!)
G 28603 Pink Magic (!!)
G 28641 Pink Riches (!!)
G 28632 Pink Sensation Improved (!!)
G 28625 Polaris (!!)
G 28615 Presto (!!)
G 28589 Prima Donna (!!)
G 28552 Radiance (**)
G 28585 Red Cascade (!!)
G 28612 Rhapsody (!!)
G 28643 Romance
G 28577 Rose and Salmon Shades (!!)
G 28599 Sabre Dance (!!)
G 28611 Salmon Magic (!!)
G 28636 Satellite (!!)
G 28620 Sioux (!!)
G 28570 Sky Chief (**)
G 28595 Sky Magic (!!)
G 28610 Snow Magic (!!)
G 28642 Snowbird (!!)
G 28613 Sonata (!!)
G 28607 Sugar Daddy (!!)
G 28624 Sugar Plum (!!)
G 28602 Tango (!!)
G 28622 Venus (!!)
G 28557 W-F Ex Dwarf Rose & Wh Bicolor (**)
G 28555 W-F Extra Dwarf Copper
G 28560 W-F Extra Dwarf Orchid
G 28556 W-F Extra Dwarf Rose (**)
G 28558 W-F Extra Dwrf Formula Mixture (**)
G 28566 W-F Formula Mixture (**)
G 28588 White Cascade (!!)
G 28609 White Magic (!!)

Availability status: ** - not currently available for distribution !! - historical record only, no material in NPGS

Some of those links have contact information. Wonder if one of them could help with this topic?

That list may be considered a "Heritage" variety list. I consulted with a friend who is a plant biologist and feel that the modern day petunia hybrids in the system are best suited with x hybrida as species. Let me know if that's is cool with all the Plant Admin folks

I'd be tempted to just call them Petunias and omit the species rather than entering a species that's questionable.

From what I was told x hybrida is the most correct

That would make sense, since they are hybrids. Notations can be made in the name editing area as to a synonym of what the cross is?

Zuzu,

I will pay extra attention when I start the detailed research for all the varieties that have been entered in the system. I plan to create a custom data sheet for each variety and will do my best to nail done an accurate species for that variety. Please allow some time for this. We have about a dozen more series, with an average of 6 varieties per series. I will approach the project by focusing on individual series, to keep track of what's complete.

Is F1 Hybrid an acceptable species?

Joanne

No, F1 Hybrid is not an accepted species name, Joanne. ITIS and GRIN both state that only Petunia hybrida (or Petunia hybr.) is accepted, not Petunia x hybrida, F1 Hybrid, or any other variation of the name. If "F1 Hybrid" is meaningful information, it probably should be included in a comment or perhaps in the common name field. Is it conceivable that someone would include it as part of the name during a search?

No, I don't think anyone would search by F1 Hybrid. So do you, Zuzu want all the entries changed from "x hybrida" to" hybrida"? Dave, Is this an easy fix for you to do?