Alex,
Yes the wide petals are definitely coming from the arachnoideum side. This one has denser tufting so it's no surprise that the petals are wider, it's caught more arachnoideum genes than it's sibling. They were both bee pollenated, so I can't say that they're dad is the same for certain but I believe he is.
I have seen some purple hues in blooms before, but Kevin's statement about them coming from an overlay of pink and yellow makes sense. 'Knuddlebar' has sort of purpleish/pink blooms (in my light/growing conditions) and I always thought that one was grandiflorum (yellow) x arachnoideum (pink). I've also noticed plants with deep color often show the hues of their leaf coloring in the core of their flowers. Some of the extra dark plants show this. Purple tectorum derived hybrids like 'Borscht' are good examples. 'Lady of Fire' is a deep red year round and shows a very red hue in its white/pink flowers. I think these elements could be combined to create a very convincing purple flower, though it seems as though a blue might be impossible without delphinidin, never say never though.

Lynn,
Thanks, as you can see from the photo I don't mess around! Those stigmas are thoroughly coated in erythraeum pollen (which has a nice consistency by the way).

-Sol

I'm pretty sure delphinidin is one of the few blue blue blue natural colors? I mean, there's more, but I don't think they are in semp blooms??

Are there any semps with bi-colored blooms?

Yes I have a yellow with pink stripes down the middle.

Kevin

A seedling of mine which is ciliosum x arachnoideum is about to bloom. I'm very much hoping to see pink flowers with a green mid-stripe on these, but whatever they end up looking like it will be a scientific discovery for me as I've never seen such a cross's flower before. Lots of bicolor blooms with darker cores, like 'Ilonka's big purple hearted cream colored blooms, but the distinctive mid-stripe is a more striking feature in my opinion, and seems to be less common, though slightly differentiated mid-stripes (as in pink flowers with darker pink mid-stripes) are very common.
-Sol

Wow, a white or cream flower with deep red stripes would be AMAZING!!!

Is it possible for sempflowers to be really dark red, like burgundy or maroon?

One of my three orangest seedlings is blooming this year, not the best at getting through winter, but it's managed well enough that I'm going to use it as a parent…


This one's a real genetic hodgepodge, my belief is that it is a wulfenii tectorum marmoreum, but it'd be hard to say.

Alex,
Possible is a tough word to discount. I will say that there are some very dark pinks, some reddish hues and some purple tones in semp blooms. Combined in the right amounts, I'm sure such a thing might be possible. 'Lady of Fire' has the reddest blooms I've seen, while 'Saharasonne' has the richest pink, I tried crossing them last year to develop truly red sempervivum flowers but was unsuccessful at attaining viable seed. A tragedy about the more unusual flowers of the sempervivum world is that the stranger they are the less likely they seem to be fertile. I have a number of successful crosses from 'Lady of Fire', and I "may" have some crosses from 'Saharasonne' though I'm skeptical that they may be contaminations from the pod parent which I didn't emasculate, it will be interesting to see what the flowers on these seedlings look like.

Wow, that orange semp is really orange!!

Looking around the semp database I found 'reinhard', which I think is quite interesting. It has a mostly regular flower shape, but is bicolored with really deep red on the inside that contrasts with the pollen.

Alex,
Thanks! Yeah that one's looking oranger than most named varieties now, as of last month it passed 'Casablanca' for color, though 'Casablanca' had better color in early spring.
I have a NoID which I'm almost certain is 'Reinhard' blooming this year, I almost photographed it for the database but thought I shouldn't because I received it without a label. The flowers are quite interesting, makes me very curious about it's derivative species. Dark tips make me think tectorum and it actually has an extremely fine pubescence if you look closely, given the blooms I'd think maybe grandiflorum? but the form is seems unexpected for such a cross. Seems like there might even be calcareum in there. That's a tough one, I'd be interested to hear others thoughts on it.
-Sol

Here is the most intriguing bloom I've found in the seedling patch this year. This is a seedling I've had under close observation for quite some time, it's a very large yellow/green from 'Olivette' that grows and offsets wildly, it's first bloom has opened up and I think it may have the most copper brown petals of anything I've ever seen, very distinct. 'Exorna' blooms have some brown hues, but this one has a far stronger color. The blooms are extra large, and I think their pretty special.

(Different lighting)


I'm very excited to use this plant as a parent, it's broad leaves, vigorous growth and amusing coloring have earned it a place amongst my favorite seedlings, the flowers now add another reason to like this plant. My only concern is that since 'Olivette' isn't a good producer of seed, it's possible this plant isn't either. I'll certainly find out next year if it's any more fertile than it's parent. A possible release, but I haven't made a decision just yet.
-Sol

Wow that color is very interesting!
I think it produced the green/cream color that appears in some white/cream blooms, but also did pink??

That is an interesting bloom color Sol. Which semp do you think you will cross it with?

Am attaching an image of a Ukrainian hybrid that appears to be pure ruthenicum. It lacks even a trace of anthocyanin at the petal bases that zelebori and other closely related forms have. This particular clone has the longest hairs of any semp I've ever seen. Despite all these hairs, it did survive the wretched 20-21 winter herein Salem with no protection and looked perfect going into spring. Unfortunately it and its offsets have all bloomed out. It blooms VERY early. I selfed three stalks and used the fourth to pollinate the seedlings from the toothpick line that are also hirsute. One of these has the peach flowers from overlaying pink on yellow.

Apparently in Ukraine, the ruthenicums there grow in pine forests on sandy sites. Maybe that bodes well for getting hirsute types that are happy on lower ground.

Will be interested to see the results from these crosses.

Kevin

Alex,
I think that what we have in the case of my brown flowered seedling is the overlay of two very strongly colored parents, one a very deep pink and one a very dark yellow. Of course this is just a guess, 'Olivette' was raised from bee pollenated seed and so is my seedling, so there really isn't much known history to go on. I do recall 'Olivette's blooms to be oddly formed and a sort of dull/dark pink, there's obviously some marmoreum in the mix and those usually have some very deep pink flowers.

Lynn,
I have a number of seedlings in orange and yellow tones and I hope to cross this one with all of them, 'Goldmarie' is blooming again and I may use that as well. Unfortunately 'Goldmarie' has low quality pods so I won't bother fussing with trying to spread its pollen on that one and I'll have to do the cross the other way if I do it at all, which will cut in on the flowers I'll be able to self. I might see if I have anything with golden flowers blooming now to cross it with, but nothing comes to mind.
I did most of my crossing early this year working on the velvet types, and I'm not preforming a ton of crosses now because I figure I've already filled up whatever space I'll have next year with a fresh crop of velvet seedlings. Still, I do feel an obligation to use the seedlings I have which have made the cut so far. All the others are just here to provide me with options at this point.

Kevin,
Those are certainly some very clean yellow flowers. Very pretty. It does seem consistent with many pure species not to have any of the anthocyanin in the bloom. Those Remind me of ciliosum in that sense, just yellow instead of green.
I took a quick look at ruthenicum in our database, in the images we have it looks like there's that touch of pink at the center of the flowers, though the images could be incorrect. Those images remind me of 'Soft Line', a plant whose derivative species I've always wondered about, maybe it's a ruthenicum. In any case it'd be neat to see longer hair on the form and color of your toothpicks.
My latest velvet species to try is this summer is kosaninii, the flowers are very light and have some green to them, it'll be a fun one to integrate into my hybrids…


-Sol

Kevin, I cane see why you love the blooms on your Ukrainian. I can't wait to see what comes from it.

My Jabba The Hutt is just starting to bloom. Not sure, but might try crossing it with 'Lynn's Rose Gold'.

Sol, how are your velvets coming along?

I was looking through the japan semp photos, saw a cream bloom. Will try seeing the correlating english semp name later

Lynn,

Jabba gives big and wide seedling and of course is a sib to 'Pink Lotus' so could give some pretty sunset colors in that combination.

Sol,

The Ukrainian ruthenicums are pure yellow.

Kevin

Lynn,
There are a few really nice velvets out there in the garden. I'm most pleased with the performance of my 'Bernstein' seedlings from that bloom I collected at your garden in Dallas three or four years ago. That group has yielded so many amazing plants, and most are very winter hardy. There's two silver velvets two oranges a copper and several yellows in that group that are absolutely stunning. Here's a yellow that's bright salmon in spring.


My grandiflorum type seedlings are definitely weaker in general, a few of them did well though, one in particular has my attention as being a viable release, several others have value as parents but just shed too many leaves to impress folks as named cultivars. The next year's crop has a number of 'Midas' crosses, some of which are amusing, though most are lacking in the color department. I just selected from my 'Green Ice'x'Shirley's Joy' group a week ago, I love the woolly look, three of those sit on top of the heap, all of which have long leaves, this one which stands upright taller than the rest…

There's another with leaves similar to 'Midas' though it isn't quite as woolly as the others, and one that is a compromise between wool and form, but has an extra tight mound that's very attractive. I'm not really culling these one and a half year olds yet, I'm transplanting whole groups into extra large pots and allowing more space for the favorites. Turns out the third year can really change things in terms of color and the second winter is particularly brutal to the mature plants which hold more moisture and are more sensitive to frost. So I don't want to give anything up until I know what I've got, but sometimes the early favorites stay interesting, so I want those to propagate as fast as possible.
I'll probably wait another year or two before giving anything a title.

Alex,
I love the cream blooms, the white x yellow cross is a pretty combination.

Kevin,
I hope I get a chance to see your fury Ukrainian toothpick cross someday. Sounds like a very unique plant.

-Sol

Sol, that is definitely a woolly little semp, very cute.

Glad you like it Lynn!
I've found that I particularly like things with upright and incurved leaves, which this seedling really has. Very charming. I'll have to post the other selections later. I pulled three as potential named varieties and 5 as possible breeders, but threw none of the ~125 of them away. Some are so furry you can't see the leaves, but most of those one's look more like arachnoideums and have connected webbing + woolly velvet, I'm looking for plants that have as much hair as possible without the connected web, size, mounding habit and leaf length are other factors I've selected on, only one selection for color in the group, no big surprise there because neither parent was particularly colorful.
-Sol