Kaktus said:
I am also struggling..
Before we go further on this.. Are you assuming that Haworthias will grow better in cold temperature ?What about sunlight requirement, I read somewhere that haworthias (eg. Truncatta) grow in desert as their original habitat, they will bury themselves in the soil and have the window or their leaves showing on top of the soil, the same as lithops, but I also seen a video where a hobbiest in Thailand said that those species need cold temperature or highlands to grow better. What I've experienced so far is that if I keep them at rooftop, even without direct sunlight, the average temperature is 32 - 37 Celcius, the Haworthias will shrink and the color change to brown. Now I am moving some of them to other cooler area to see how they perform.

What I think is interesting is that a lot of confusion arises due to the massive variation in the climates people grow them in . I guess it's a testament to the plants that they are surviving at all in many cases
Your temps are crazy hot to me and it's no surprise the plants struggle out in the open in that environment. My understanding is that is Habitat these plants grow in shade or underground to prevent the extreme exposure maybe that's why they tolerate lower light levels than other genus . What I think I need to do is educate myself on the temperature range in habitat and when the plants are set to grow temperature wise . So winter in habitat may match the hight of summer for me.
Steve

I would think in general they are opportunistic, not fixed in any particular seasonal rhythm. There are some very good maps in the pages linked above and you can use those to tell what kind of rainfall they receive in habitat. We can get into the ecozones of South Africa if you want. The real question is what conditions are permissive, ie. allow that opportunism to work to your advantage. Judged by how I've heard UK growers deal with Echeverias, there would need to be some degree of partial or total dormancy (associated with reduced watering) to go along with low light and cool temps in the coming months. But if it's mild and bright, doesn't matter the season, every Haworthia I've ever had is a year-round grower (to the extent some of them are so slow you need a photo series to know if there were any new leaves produced). As is every Echeveria, for what it's worth.

@baja_costero
So do you think the whole 'winter grower' thing is a bit of a myth? I think echies are really a greenhouse plant in the uk so you can maximise light and dry out totally for the winter .
I think indoors the temps are high enough in winter with home heating to cause the plants to burn through lower leaves if water is withheld (which you have to do to prevent eloitation ) end result is a rosette on a spike. I have always worried with haworthia and aloe that I tend to withhold water at the times that the plants would want to grow , so this might be the reason for my lack of growth. Maybe it's just that my window of opportunity is so narrow .
Steve

I don't think the term 'winter grower' applies to Haworthias. It is overused for many other plants which are opportunistic. It makes sense with certain obligate winter growers (eg. Tylecodon) but otherwise most plants are going to grow whenever conditions are permissive (which might actually be winter, in a hot climate with mild winters). In any case, withholding water to one degree or another would make sense for you if light and temperature are not in a comfort zone for your plants.

Lost the name of this tall flower stems with tiny pink flowers

@ketsui73 -- I tend to agree with Baja on this one. I keep most of my plants outside in summer and on a south windowsill in winter, so I see some distinct patterns of opportunism going on. My 'summer growers -- cacti, agave, adeniums and tiger jaws -- are certainly happiest in spring/summer. In winter the cacti and Adeniums go more or less dormant on the windowsill, while the agave and tiger jaws continue to grow at about 1/3 speed. My 'winter growers' -- Adromischus, Aloes, Graptopetalum and Buddha's Temple -- are happiest and most active in fall, but will grow through much of the winter, spring, and early summer, and really only seem to be dormant for the hottest couple months of summer and the coldest, darkest couple months of the winter. My Haworthias are inside year round, and grow so slowly at any time that it's hard to tell if they have any seasonal preference at all!

I continue to water moderately all winter, whenever they appear to need it. The only exception is my Trichocereus cactus this year, because I'm told I need to do that and force it into a deeper dormancy if I ever want it to bloom!

@romalu
thanks for sharing your experiences. Due to our climate all my plants are indoors, so whilst i probably don't lose the temp in winter I certainly lose the light quite badly. I too have been watering my aloes and haworthia about once a month in the winter , but i have not watered the cacti since early oct.
I was worried my nervousness about rot was potentially stopping me getting more growth in the winter , but i guess growth without light is going to be problematic anyway.
thanks Rose and Baja for helping me clarify my thoughts a bit
Steve

@ketsui73

" i guess growth without light is going to be problematic anyway. " Yes, I think that's likely. Here I have enough bright sun and warm temps off and on throughout the winter months that if I had the time and ability to move them in and out, most of them would grow even with the shorter days. Since that's not going to happen, I try to severely limit the supplemental water to prevent as much active growth as I can. That kind of growth is not good when the plants go back out when it warms up. And most of my plants get moved as soon as I think possible. That usually means some are going back out before the deciduous oaks have leafed out enough to give some protection. So between too much sun and spring winds, new growth from the winter tends to take a beating. Even old growth that grew in harsh sun can sunburn after those rays have been removed during the winter rest. Mostly that move is managed pretty well, but there are always a few that get damaged. Not an ideal situation, but it is what it is.

This is to confirm that H. Mirabilis like a cooler temperature. These 2 is a buy 1 get 1 free, from the same vendor and arrived at the same day, I think arrived on the 12th. The top one I keep in a cooler area and the bottom one I kept in a hotter area, both do not exposed to direct sunlight. In 8 days we can see that the top one grows thicker, the window open up. The bottom one become thinner and closing the leaves. I think the temperature difference on the 2 will have 4 celcius degree difference at noon time.


Note: I assume both Haworthias have a good root system

It seems like we should make this into a competition for the best haworthia photos. the Photo with most likes wins. \

Kaktus said:This is to confirm that H. Mirabilis like a cooler temperature. These 2 is a buy 1 get 1 free, from the same vendor and arrived at the same day, I think arrived on the 12th. The top one I keep in a cooler area and the bottom one I kept in a hotter area, both do not exposed to direct sunlight. In 8 days we can see that the top one grows thicker, the window open up. The bottom one become thinner and closing the leaves. I think the temperature difference on the 2 will have 4 celcius degree difference at noon time.


Note: I assume both Haworthias have a good root system

@kaktus
Tjoe thanks for sharing. In these situations I think we need to consider light , water and temperature because these issues are often interrelated . How is the temp difference created in the above situation ? Is it not possible that the hotter plant is seeing more sunlight and therefore UV ? We known that sun exposure has a dramatic effect on plants . In nature increasing temp is usually related to more sun exposure . A plant that sees more sun will use more water in its leaves . If you gave your hotter plant more water could it be possible that it would look more like the cooler plant but grow more ?
What do you think the two actual temps are for hot and cold in your situation
Not trying to be clever here or say that your statement is wrong . I just think we need to understand clearly what's happening because often more variables are at play than we think .This is why it is so hard for us all to agree exact methods of care for our plants apart from very general stuff like drain holes and as much light as possible indoors :
Steve

Aeonium2003 said:It seems like we should make this into a competition for the best haworthia photos. the Photo with most likes wins. \

There is some stunning plants on display thats for sure . I hope people share many pics because this is how I decide what I like .
Beauty like music is subjective though right so I think comparisons are often pointless It's impossible to say my plant is better than yours because of this or that reason. The current top selling song in the charts I suppose has the most likes but that doesn't mean you and I have to agree it's the best song

ketsui73 said:

@kaktus
Tjoe thanks for sharing. In these situations I think we need to consider light , water and temperature because these issues are often interrelated . How is the temp difference created in the above situation ? Is it not possible that the hotter plant is seeing more sunlight and therefore UV ? We known that sun exposure has a dramatic effect on plants . In nature increasing temp is usually related to more sun exposure . A plant that sees more sun will use more water in its leaves . If you gave your hotter plant more water could it be possible that it would look more like the cooler plant but grow more ?
What do you think the two actual temps are for hot and cold in your situation
Not trying to be clever here or say that your statement is wrong . I just think we need to understand clearly what's happening because often more variables are at play than we think .This is why it is so hard for us all to agree exact methods of care for our plants apart from very general stuff like drain holes and as much light as possible indoors :
Steve

I do not dare to expose any fluffy leaves succulents to direct sunlight at my rooftop. Lactea, mammilarias, opuntias and some euphorbia with leaves will have like 30 mnts to 1 hour sunlight. It is too hot at noon time.
Just imagine that the haworthia at the hotter place is inside a garage, the garage expose to the sun the door and window is widely open, and the haworthia is 6 meter inside ( from the sunlight). This is the place that even at 5.30 pm in the afternoon is not convenient to sit down and have a cup of coffee.
While the other at cooler place, it is like on a patio next to fish pond, with a lot of trees around and the trees has blocked all the sun light, it is like 4 meters away from direct sunlight.

Both places are bright and good air circulation. Will try to measure the day/noon temperature, now at 6pm is 30 vs 27 degree celcius.70% humidity.

needrain said:@ketsui73
Here I have enough bright sun and warm temps off and on throughout the winter months that if I had the time and ability to move them in and out, most of them would grow even with the shorter days. Since that's not going to happen, I try to severely limit the supplemental water to prevent as much active growth as I can. That kind of growth is not good when the plants go back out when it warms up.

Most of my plants continue to grow over the winter; some of them much prefer the cooler fall/winter conditions on my windowsill over the summer heat and actually grow the most right now. The trick is simply keeping them only as active as conditions would allow; if they are too active they etiolate. I think the cold night temps on my windowsill help with that, since none have stretched yet. And I haven't had any issue with winter growth being oversensitive/damage-prone when they go outside in spring, as long as I take the time to acclimate them gradually.

romalu said:

I haven't had any issue with winter growth being oversensitive/damage-prone when they go outside in spring, as long as I take the time to acclimate them gradually.

That's true, but I simply have too many plants and no really good location or enough spare time to acclimate all of them. The percentage is good, but there are always a few that get some sunburn. It's usually limited to those that go out early. Once the trees leaf out enough to cut down on direct sun, I have more options which in turns provide the time it takes for those that like or at least can endure the direct sun. For some succulents and cacti that lasts until mid-summer and then those benefit from getting a break from direct sun. Then it's finding them a location with some break from the sun. Fortunately some can handle the sun, even when they'd do better with less of it in July/August. That's mostly some of the cacti. Most of the succulents can be endangered by the heat in combination with the sun. Often the labels that come with a plant give instructions to keep plants watered during that time, but that's not good advice for a lot of them under my conditions. Experience has taught me they are better off without supplemental water and generally don't get much. Which isn't altogether a fulproof system either. Most are exposed to rain and getting that rain works the same as getting supplemental water. I had plants I was sure I'd lose this summer due some showers. If you're out of pocket when a surprise shower shows up, you don't have the opportunity to temporarily protect them and all you can do is hope for the best.

Seems like nature is always dishing out something that needs mitigating. Too hot, too cold, too much rain at the wrong time, hail, wind, insects and lately feral hogs plowing up the yard. As deep as they are churning up the terrain, I have to wonder if they are not doing damage to the fine roots of the oak trees. Maybe not. Since the acorns are the attraction, maybe the trees are adapted to deal with it. I'm not sure about that since feral hogs are not native wildlife and nothing else in this area digs so deeply over such a big expanse. Do badgers dig like that? This area isn't their range.

Kaktus said:
Both places are bright and good air circulation. Will try to measure the day/noon temperature, now at 6pm is 30 vs 27 degree celcius.70% humidity.

@katus
To give you an idea here are my annual average temps

So i guess one persons 'cold' is another person 'on fire'
Steve

ketsui73 said:
@katus
To give you an idea here are my annual average temps

So i guess one persons 'cold' is another person 'on fire'
Steve

Your average highs in July and August are less than 68F? I'd be thinking I was about to freeze to death . If you were charting cloud cover, what would it show?

needrain said:
Your average highs in July and August are less than 68F? I'd be thinking I was about to freeze to death . If you were charting cloud cover, what would it show?

@needrain
sweaters Donald its all about sweaters and layers . At first I was typing 'jumpers' not 'sweater', then i thought you might not understand me
It isn't so bad, its never really extreme in either direction. You can see why i think we need to be clear about what we are talking about when we say things like 'winter grower' and 'south facing ' I have a south east facing garden but whats that worth when this are my temps now


Steve

ketsui73 said:
@katus
To give you an idea here are my annual average temps

So i guess one persons 'cold' is another person 'on fire'
Steve

Hahaha.. There is still a gap, I think the weather in Jakarta is never be lower than 23 celcius...
Looking at your chart, I can hardly pass the winter, not to mention the plants.
And for the Haworthia, I will need a box with air conditioner instead of greenhouse,
Special note: it also took me 1 week to understand why I need a "south facing window".. Maybe people in Australia will need a North facing window

They certainly will! I wonder how much (or if) the N-S thing matters for you, being so close to equatorial.

Steve's July temps are like our January temps, for what it's worth. But we're only a few degrees apart in the summer.