Awe Geez, this dummy just misread the question (again) I've only freeze-thawed one pollen for use later that season, then refroze and used the same pollen again the second year with good results on compatible partners. I used it again after that, too but it failed and I blamed incompatibility. But this is based on a single test tube of pollen from one diploid Trumpet only. So beware.

I do know for sure that unfrozen pollen can be shipped world wide from Point A and refrozen at destination Point B, then thawed and used successfully. I would suppose shipping frozen pollen intended for use soon after arrival would be ok as well. I don't think it would matter too much what season it is.

Cohesive thoughts tomorrow!

So yes, what I was wondering about was the freezing-thawing-refreezing cycle and pollen viability.

I think we need to test it out. If it works well for daylilies maybe it will work for lilium. Does anyone want to be the recipient of some Tall Boy pollen and experiment? I want to see if the pollen is viable if picked fresh, dried then frozen, then posted to north america and frozen again for summer use... and see how many refreezings it stays good for.

Sounds like February/early March is still good for transit on the northern end, but it could be warm for a few days leaving Aus.

Tall Boy is an OT, possible tetra, and seems to have been successful on orientals, aurelians and an orienpet. At least pods are developing - no idea if there will be good seed. And it has quinary buds.

I can't really speak from my experience but in Lilies by Mcrae, they discuss mentor pollen in it. I can't quote from memory but he says something to the fact of that they will freeze and thaw the mentor pollen to make it not viable so that when they apply the mentor and the intended pollens, they will hopefully only get pollination from the intended pollen, although somehow the "dead" mentor pollen will help. Now I don't recall seeing a statement that talked about how many times it was frozen and thawed to make it "dead" but I would imagine it would have to be more than a couple.

Joe, I think I'll stick with live mentor pollen. I know, I know----it's in the book. But I haven't heard of anyone ever using it that way. The concept is a chemical one, where the recipient doesn't care if the pollen is alive or dead; it's the chemical that excites it. But killing pollen without lose or alteration of the chemistry would seem to be more trouble than it's worth.

Della, I think there's way too much concern here over the degradation of pollen during shipment. Pollen is tougher than you apparently think. If I were to ship you pollen from here in the northern hemisphere, I would simply pick and dry and ship, letting the first freeze happen at the receiver. I would do this without the bat of eye or even the slightest concern of viability. Once frozen, this pollen should still be viable for years to come.

Just to explain and as background information, just how strong pollen really is, I discussed this topic with Johan Mak a couple days ago. From his experience he says that many times he has frozen pollen one year, then the following year, thawed a good portion to be used during the season and then keep in the refrigerator. Each time a sample of pollen is used in the garden, it is returned to the refrigerator when done until the next pollination, then used again, and again, throughout the season and each time returned to the refrigerator. And if there's any left over at the end of the season, that too, goes back in the freezer. He suggests it's reasonable to assume that viability is continually lessened, of course.

Another hybridizer in Europe tells me he has used pollen successfully after it being frozen 10 years.

Couple that with the fact that I've left fresh pollen sit in a saucer for 3 or 4 weeks in a shaded room and used it successfully. And, I used 4 year old frozen pollen.

The only detriment in shipping I can imagine would be that in the unlikely event the pollen would be exposed to excessive heat during transit, like being stuck in a hot corner over a week end. But there are some things in life we just can't do anything about.

I can only add from my experience with Daylily pollen.
But I have thawed and re-froze the pollen many times without any problems or loss of fertility.
I should also add that the only success I had with shipping daylily pollen was when I shipped in the dead of winter, Wisconsin to Texas, all other attempts shipping in the summer were total failures.
My experience only, and heaven knows I'm no expert.
Ed Burton

Lorn, where's your spirit of scientific adventure? Don't you want to see how many times the same pollen sample from the other side of the world can be refrozen and still set seed? I don't doubt that lily pollen is tougher than I used to think, but I want to find out how tough.

Hi Ed! Nice to see you here. I'm learning from the daylily experiences of others and it's opening my ideas about breeding with lilium. A bit of cross fertilisation is a good thing!

Thanks for the info Joe. I find it interesting that Mcrae suggests thawing and refreezing pollen as a method of killing it for mentoring. I'm with Lorn on that count... I don't see any reason for mentor pollen to be disabled. I don't want to kill mentor pollen! If Mcrae has some experience of freeze-thawing being detrimental to fertility, but the daylily experience is contrary, and we know lily pollen is damn tough stuff anyway, then it's worth testing out for myself to find out what the facts, for lilium, really are.

I'm just kind of impatient now that I have to wait for next summer! I have some of this season's pollen already in the freezer, but I always rush getting a bit out on a cotton bud, in case I defrost the whole sample. Next year I'll pick a couple for extended use over the season and deliberately let each sample defrost each time.

Just generally, I think pollen trade is a good way to expand our breeding endeavours. I really hope the pollen I sent you, Joe, makes it.

Thanks for the input, Ed.

Please stop in (the forum) from time to time.

Thanks Rick
I'm interested in how my pollen storage method works with lilies

I have several plantings of oriental lilies mixed in my daylily beds, I really like the fragrance as I walk around pollenating my daylilies.

I know this is an odd question but can you cross L. Regale or L. Lankon.......or does not work since Lankon is a cross aleady..
my daughter in law trying to come with a special lily all of her own...........
will be lots of trumpets in the garden here when they bloom
but was hoping for a purple and white Cross and thought would use Regale as the pod parent.....

I am going to have well over 120 trumpets very close to L.Regale and Regale Album so not sure......the lily breeder I bought them from said there might be several crosses in my garden and likely even between the trumpets themselves as well........ but I can see Regale being a strong species as the culprit with nature to the other lilies

Pat .. go for it & never be told you cant!

I got a flat NO to the idea of Regale to Purple Prince from the lily breeder last night......... she said it will never work......
the only way to get a sorta purple type lily is to cross Regale to Pink Perfection and that might work.......
but the other one is a flat NO way.........do not even waste your time and be disappointed......

Regale is not even in bloom here although will be in the next week or so I hope......I am looking forward to the smell of them although she says only in the evenings again for the smell......
not being a night owl is not helping me much...lol

Want to get some pollen from Regale Album tomorrow morning.......very early.... some are just opening up and lots are already opened up but the flower is so pretty and LOVE the white flowers.... You would be surprised how many people think this lily is a Easter Lily growing out in the garden here........

The lily breeder is correct. The reason is Purple Prince is an interspecific hybrid, in this case a cross between Oriental and trumpet lily. You have a better chance with crossing Regale with Pink Perfection, two trumpet lilies.

Thanks Connie will try them that way and see how it goes then
it is better to cross trumpet to trumpet and oriental to oriental and such then........
kind of learning some of this........
and really want to give this a try for my daughter in laws and grand daughter....

Yes, stick to the same type of lily. I really spun my wheels and wasted time getting no seeds the first few years of trying to hybridize lilies. Asiatic and trumpet lilies are the easiest seeds to start. Orientals are more difficult.

Just a fast question about Regale..
I have a Regale plant that I want to use as the father for my lilies in the future...
I would love to have seeds from that plant to share with my daughter In law and so on...... not interested in scaling really.......
so can I just hybridize between 2 flowers on the same plant since the male and female are part of the flower or let nature do its thing......
or use one from one regale to another regale.....
remember I am just learning.........

it is the plant that you are interested in .........right or is the flower??
like a nice plant to a nice plant by the flower or a nice flower to a nice flower.......

sounds confusing and hard for me to put it in the right term......

appreciate as always an info someone can give me on this......

Pat, you have to go to separate plants. The consensus seems to be the pod parent(female) seems to give most of the structure to the plant. So the stem strength, pedicels and general structure. The pollen parent provide more of the flower qualities. As far as flowers to flower it doesn't matter as long as the correct structures are there. Most lilies will not pollinate themselves and produce seed.

what about the Regale..thought it would self seed itself usually.......I will go Regale to Regale though.......there are more then enough of them to choose from but some of the are very nice..out there.... will use 2 of them...thanks Joe as always you are very helpful

do I try this on 2 flowers on each different Regale that way the odds are better .......or is one flower enough to do this..........
I could try several different Regale to Regale and see what shows up too............but out of all the them planted here only a few of them are stand out plants........much heavier stems and carry the flowers much nicer.......should open in the next day or 2 and can post some pics of them..........
some of the others are more spindly on the stems but more flowers but the once with less flowers are producing nice heavy thick stems......