Evan, that is such a cool photo. First time I've seen water tubes.

Evan,
I agree with Lynn, those tubes make for an amusing visual.

I read the post from the semponium thread, it's an interesting concept that fertilization at lower temps could induce a more coldhardy offspring, it does seem like there may be some problems there though: Firstly, Sempervivum bloom predominately at or around the peak of summer, so you'd have to subject them to artificial temperatures during hybridizing to take this theory to it's maximum effect. Another concern I'd have is that at some temperature I'd imagine all pollen would go dormant, so you'd have to moderate, possibly to the point where it ended up not making a difference. Sure I think an Aeonium bred in an Oregon summer might naturally be slightly more cold tolerant than one bred in the tropics, but if such a difference still wasn't enough to get a hybrid to survive a winter it's hard to say how many generations it'd take to get one that does, and you'd still have to test the offspring with the weather anyways. I don't know, it's an interesting thought, I'll have to brood over it for a while.
I made a cross during the winter on two latent blooms and have actually sprouted seedlings from the cross, it was 'Silverine' x 'Thunder', thunder mostly produces winter weak offspring, so if these seedlings are tougher than expected that might ascribe some validity to this notion.

As always, thanks for the food-for-thought,
-Sol

My thought would be to put them in a greenhouse during later parts of winter, and hope that they flower. Then pollinate them in the greenhouse, but bring them out into the cold weather. I sent my only flowering size Simsii to a guy in Escondido (but I did get interesting things in return). I think I will extend their growing period by keeping them in the shade during the summer. There's around 3 things we should consider:
- what temperature does the pollen go dormant at
- what temperature is necessary for chilling resistant genotype to be favored
- what temperature will the plant's flowers get frost damaged...

I think the first step would be gathering as many simsii forms and clones. If I were to self pollinate the flowers multiple times over multiple generations (trying to get chilling resistant genotype), it would only be a matter of time before I got inbreeding.
In this thread, you can see how much variation there is in one species:
http://www.agaveville.org/view...

Evan,
Some of the simsii on that page look very similar to sempervivum, even the long leaved types remind me of 'Midas'.
I imagine there've been scientific studies done on the dormancy of pollen which I'm sure you could find with a bit of research. I'd also bet none of those studies were done on semp or aeonium pollen specifically so you'd likely be left to make inferences of the data from other plants. Here on the forum and on a handful of other garden websites you'll find some of the leading experts on the various species of succulents, since it's such a specific bunch of plants without much agricultural or medicinal value my guess is the hobbyists are probably the most versed on the science behind the plants, we're lucky to have someone like Kevin who's been educated both formally and informally on the science behind sempervivum post regularly here. There are only a few other prominent hybridizers in the US and I doubt many of them have the background Kevin does, my guess would be that if he doesn't have the answers to those questions (regarding sempervivum) no one does. Perhaps there's a comparable fogure in the aeonium world who could give you some information on the subject.

As for my own experience, latent sempervivum blooms tend towards mutation and mutated blooms tend towards infertility. I usually don't get much viable seed off these cold weather blooms, perhaps it's because more pollen is dormant at the time of application, but with the bloom stalks often producing mutations such as rosette formations by and around flowers, oddly shaped blossoms and poor pollen formation, there are so many variables associated with the development of seed during colder months that I'd have had to keep a much closer eye on the process to have anything concrete to say here. Similarly I've not watched closely enough in the seedlings to say whether the colder blooms produced more frost hardy plants. I can't say the theory is wrong, but I can't prove it to be right either. I wonder what sort of studies were done to lead the author of that post to come to such a conclusion, was it tested under rigorous circumstances or is it simply a supposition. In any case, I can say that blooms can be induced through artificial conditions, and that a flowering plant which is exposed to cold weather after it's begun it's cycle will try to continue to flower, and that cold weather seed production is possible in sempervivum, I have done all of those things to some degree over the last four years, though I must preface that statement by saying any time you work against the natural bloom cycle of a plant you'll be fighting an uphill battle. Artificial induced and latent blooms are usually weaker, tend to have less flowers, pods and pollen exposed to adverse light and temperature conditions often seem distressed, as with most things the best results come when it's done the old fashioned way as nature intended.

That's about all the theorizing I can do during this beautiful weather on rare a day off work! Time to dive back into the garden for me, I'm busy finalizing my last round selections on the 2018 seedlings, most are getting room to propagate so if I do decide to name them I'll have nice little homogeneous colonies to work with, everything else from those early crosses is getting potted up in close quarters to be sold this spring.
-Sol

I wish you luck on your semp seedling sales!

Here is an interesting journal on The Aeoniums of Gran Canaria which you can download as a PDF: https://www.researchgate.net/p...

It states "One of the most interesting Aeonium species,
A. simsii looks quite similar to a Sempervivum at
first sight (Figure 33). A caespitose and often
stemless plant, it forms low mounds on rocky outcrops, sheer cliffs, stone walls and old roofs.
It has lanceolate, highly toothed and thin
leaves with longitudinal brownish tannic
stripes on the lower face (Figure 34).
Widespread in the pine forest zone, it is said
to grow up to the summit of Pico de las Nieves
(1950m), although I found it only up to 1800m.
It prefers shaded places, but enjoys a
remarkable resistance to drought and frost. It
occupies the same ecological niche of many
Sempervivum species. During the summer
dormancy many plants look dried up and
seem dead, yet they are only trying to reduce
to the bare minimum the loss of water by
protecting the core of the rosette with a shell of
dried leaves, a strategy adopted also by A.
aureum. Unlike this species, however, I was
unable to spot "open" rosettes of A. simsii (see
Figure 35)"

I find it interesting that Simsii shares the same ecological niche as Sempervivum! It also states that Simsii is frost and drought tolerant.

Evan,
That is wild! Semps will even shed outer leaves to protect rosette centers in extreme conditions. I might look into trying Simsii, get a couple rosettes so I can leave one outside close to the house where it's a little warmer, see how it does.
-Sol

The xBarbatum hybrid (a naturally occuring hybrid between Simsii and Spathulatum, which are both high altitude species) might be more common (even though, I personally haven't seen it). I was talking with someone in the UK, and he claimed it survived -8C
He said "A. spathulatum is more frost tolerant than simsii. At least here. So the hybrid between these two parents is tough, my x barbatum was barely damaged at -8C with two weeks below freezing day/night one bad winter"

Paul S said: Simsii from Roque Nublo, Gran Canaria
Spathulatum from Tenerife

XBarbatum, bought as simsii

That one is also pretty cool, I think I prefer the rosette form of simsii though. There's an odd alpine plant I bought from a local nursery I ought to take a picture of for you, it was sold without a label, probably a saxifraga of some sort, but it reminds me of simsii. I'll post a photo of it when I get the opportunity.

I would love to see pictures. Who knows; if it does turn out to be a simsii, I'm interested in pups! (I can only find pure simsiis for sale on UK websites. Nothing in the US. With BREXIT, I can't even get seeds from the UK. ).

Some seeds of Aeonium x Sventenii, which is a naturally occuring hybrid between Aeonium Simsii, and Aeonium Manriqueorum (arboreum). I would guess the offspring from these F2 seeds would still be considered x Sventenii... There's plenty of seeds. These flowers were open since the cold spell we had earlier this spring. With some luck, some of the seedling will show improved cold tolerance.

Great photo of the seeds, Evan.

That'd certainly be a great thing to see Evan!
The aeonium seed+chaff photo may as well be a semp seed photo they're so similar.
-Sol

I spotted a couple of larger seeds, they appear almost semp-like. Never seen an Aeonium seed that large. Doesn't appear to be any part of the chaff.

Who knows! A lot of the time I'll accidentally end up germinating stowaway seeds, especially in seed I've collected from outdoor bee pollenated blooms. Usually those seeds are just some sort of weed that managed to get it's seed stuck to the pods of the harvested plant, but every now and then it's something cool from nearby in your garden. I accidentally raised some delosperma seed once, since the seedling looked succulent I didn't pull it even though it appeared to have an odd form for a semp, I thought it was a mutant of some kind until it became obvious that it was a delo, I grow a modest assortment of them, probably my third favorite after semps and sedum. Unfortunately my delo seedling croaked this winter, but I've considered intentionally raising delo seed someday.
-Sol

Mesemb seeds seem to need the same conditions as Aeoniums from seed. Cool temperatures, good lighting. I randomly dump my lampranthus seed into Aeonium seed trays every so often.

GeologicalForms said: Who knows! A lot of the time I'll accidentally end up germinating stowaway seeds, especially in seed I've collected from outdoor bee pollenated blooms. Usually those seeds are just some sort of weed that managed to get it's seed stuck to the pods of the harvested plant, but every now and then it's something cool from nearby in your garden. I accidentally raised some delosperma seed once, since the seedling looked succulent I didn't pull it even though it appeared to have an odd form for a semp, I thought it was a mutant of some kind until it became obvious that it was a delo, I grow a modest assortment of them, probably my third favorite after semps and sedum. Unfortunately my delo seedling croaked this winter, but I've considered intentionally raising delo seed someday.
-Sol

So cool!! I don't think I'll be able to manage getting seed from my Delos — they DESPISE the winters here in VA. They freeze up and die back and pout. I might look for more hardy cultivars and give more delisperma a try , their flowers are wonderful.

Aeonium Decorum var Guarimarense is flowering. I have to wait for the pollen to mature. I think I should be able to cross it with the Tabuliforme x Zwartkop. In fact it flowered just in time to catch some of the last T x Z flowers.

I spotted a nice Aeonium x sventenii in my neighbors yard, mind you, the fences are rather transparent here. I'll go and talk with my neighbor later, and maybe I'll be able to get a few cuttings.

Alex,
I wonder how the workhorse delo's I grow for my planters would hold up in your environment. There's actually a decent variety in the category, one I have has 2-3" long leaves, another gets a particularly nice red blush and all of them have vibrant blooms. Unfortunately the delo seedling I raised died last winter after surviving two winters before, so evidently some of them are hardier than others because my three nameless varieties don't mind harsh winters at all. I bought one called "wheel of fire" (I think) as a present for my mom who really enjoys moss roses which have a similar appearance but tend to grow as annuals, as I recall it's done well in her garden, so maybe that'd be one for you to try. It has very attractive colorless new growth that appears almost as a seasonal variegation, as well as gorgeous fire red flowers.

Alex,
I was in california just last weekend and I must admit to some serious succulent envy for your climate! The thought of being able to grow big aeoniums and 5' tall agaves right in the front yard nearly makes me want to move. Then I remember how hot it gets down there and I have to think twice! It's an exciting time for sempervivum right now, we're all out here in Oregon trying so hard to cross and breed towards succulents we perceive to be large, meanwhile you're wading through great forests of succulent trees! Maybe someday we'll get there, but I think nature's taken us far enough in the opposite direction it'll take some time before we'll be able to produce plants like the ones you're used to. It's clear that cold weather seems easier for the smaller succulents to handle, my suspicion is that with less water mass there is less expansion during freeze-thaws of winter and less ability to drink all that excessive moisture we get during the rainy seasons, hence the uphill battle to produce larger cold hardy plants. Just my thoughts. Goodluck with your crosses!
-Sol

This week is all in the 60's and in the 30-40's at night. Which makes it a great time for germinating Aeonium seed. I'm hoping we don't get a heat wave, or the seed will go into heat induced dormancy (over 70 f).

The flower is at it's end, and some of the pods are starting to dry. Today I collected one pod of Blushing Beauty x Zwartkin. Results were a bit disappointing, there was only one seed I found that appears to be good. I did notice this seed pod was a bit on the small side, so that may be part of it.