Roses forum: Question about roses & patents

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Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
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Skiekitty
Mar 25, 2013 8:17 AM CST
Is it right for me to assume that, if a rose is patented, you cannot propagate the rose & sell it?

http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.36315.1
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271175171945
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/TweetsnTreats
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
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porkpal
Mar 25, 2013 9:11 AM CST
That is what I understand.
Porkpal
Name: Dora
Calgary (Zone 3a)
Lilies Clematis Bulbs Seed Starter Enjoys or suffers cold winters Region: Canadian
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dorab
Mar 25, 2013 9:34 AM CST
It seems to me that patents last about 25 years (?). Does that apply to plants and would you be able to propogate a rose that was patented more than 25 years ago then?
Dora
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Charter ATP Member Irises Salvias Xeriscape Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Procrastinator The WITWIT Badge Region: Colorado Enjoys or suffers cold winters Cat Lover
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Skiekitty
Mar 25, 2013 9:52 AM CST
Dora - No idea.. but I know this is a fairly newer rose... I think it was patented in 2002.
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/TweetsnTreats
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Mar 25, 2013 8:00 PM CST
In the United States, a US patent has a life of 20 years and yes, it is illegal to sell a patented rose without a license.

The US patent laws did change in 2013, but those changes were more about what could be patented than about the life of a patent.

I know a lot of people hate the concept of patents, but this is how the breeders pay for their overhead. It can take at least seven years, or more, to test a rose and to build the necessary inventory to introduce a rose. There are a lot of costs involved.

It's not difficult to patent a rose and really not necessary to hire a lawyer.

Smiles,
Lyn

I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Mar 25, 2013 8:14 PM CST
Ah-ha! Shall we rat on 'em?
Porkpal
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Charter ATP Member Irises Salvias Xeriscape Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Procrastinator The WITWIT Badge Region: Colorado Enjoys or suffers cold winters Cat Lover
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Skiekitty
Mar 25, 2013 9:23 PM CST
Seriously thinking about it. I was trying to buy some roses from this guy last year, paid for them, then he kept stating that, oh, weather's bad, got too many bugs, blahblahblah (excuses excuses). Personally, I think he was disappointed that they weren't selling as high as he'd wanted, so made any excuse he could not to sell them to me.
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/TweetsnTreats
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Mar 26, 2013 12:05 PM CST
Porkpal...

I am not well-known on this forum because I generally spend my time working on the HMF database. I know I come across as kind of stuffy and with no sense of humor ... not true, but it takes a while for people to find that out.

When I first started my rose life, 20+ years ago, I volunteered for Tiny Petals Miniature Rose Nursery founded by Dee Bennett and, at that time run by her daughter Sue. Sue was writing the patents for the roses her late mother had bred and were in testing when she died and that TP introduced while Sue was running the nursery.

Then I met Kim Rupert, a rose breeder who had been mentored by Ralph Moore who also wrote his own patents. (I had to read the rose tomes just to understand what Kim was talking about because he talked in "crosses"). Kim made me do my own rose lineage trees by hand ..... arghhhhhh). That started me working on HMF bringing the rose database up-to-date. All of that is to say that I look at roses through the breeder's eye.

I was taught, at that time in the rose world, that no one with any integrity would ever buy a patented rose from a person that was not licensed. I am not the rose police and may know more about the botany of roses (and rose breeders through history) than the average gardener, but I still consider myself a beginner because I know how much I don't know about roses.

However, I seem to be stuck with the breeder's bias about patented roses.

As a rose friend says, today we are in the dark ages of roses, but I do know that Conard-Pyle/Meilland and Kordes are soliciting roses for trial from American breeders. They are also licensing US rose nurseries to sell their roses. Also, I think that good rose nurseries selling non-patented roses are going under and need our support to keep them around.

Altho' I don't have room for more roses, if I were still buying roses, I'd leave the E-bay sellers alone just to make sure my dollars support the remaining US nurseries. Yes, you can buy roses cheaper on E-bay and there are some reliable sellers, but, personally, I just can't go there.

Smiles,
Lyn

PS... please think of this post as mostly a personal introduction and not a statement about any member who doesn't have the same bias.
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
Sunset Zone 15
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Calif_Sue
Mar 28, 2013 1:29 PM CST

Moderator

LYN! I am so glad to see you here and that you took the time to share your wonderful knowledge and input! I know you are doing a great job on the HMF database, we love using it as our go-to for additional info. While our little rose database here is small in comparison, it was created to enhance the overall ATP plant database and we hope also add to the wonderful online info for rose lovers. As you said, the good rose nurseries are a dying breed and it's a shame to see so many close down over the last few years, and by sharing with others the wonderful qualities and beauty of so many obscure roses, it's always our hope to inspire a new gardener to find the same joy in growing roses as we do.

And I agree on that EBay comment! nodding
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[Last edited by Calif_Sue - Mar 28, 2013 11:23 PM (+)]
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Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Mar 28, 2013 3:02 PM CST
Hi Sue .......

You have created a wonderful site and I know I am going to enjoy playing here. I tell the members of my gardening club that the only thing I know how to grow is roses and weeds, so I know I will probably be asking lots of questions on the other forums.

I am happy to share what I do know about roses, but I know there are a lot of right ways to grow roses. I am still learning, too.

Smiles,
Lyn
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.

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