Roses forum: Looking for a picture of this rose

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Name: Mary
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fiwit
Mar 28, 2013 6:27 AM CST
Problem is, all I know about it is a metal tag hanging on the chain link fence in my back yard. There is no vendor name or logo on it, just the words: Rose Hybrid Tea 78-1744 Limited Edition I'm assuming that means it's a 1978 intro?


I know it's a needle in a haystack, but I figured you rose experts would be my best chance for a picture. I'm assuming it's a J&P because all the other tags on the fence are J&P tags. The roses (and tags) came with the house. I've never seen it bloom, which is why I'm looking for a picture of it.

Thanks!
Northwest Georgia Daylily Society
I'm going to retire and live off of my savings. Not sure what I'll do that second week.
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Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
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Skiekitty
Mar 28, 2013 8:49 AM CST
Well, HT roses that were intro'd in 1978 are:

Beacon View (no image) http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.33231.0
Carina Superior (no image) http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.29501.0 white rose
Chelsea 77 (no image) http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.60337.0 pink rose
Chicago Peace climber (no image?) http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.61579.0 pink blend
Color Magic http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.1253.0 Pink Blend
Countess Cadogan (no image) http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.30183.0 pink
Countrywoman http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.23115.0 Yellow
Daniphyl (no image) http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.30628.0 red
Irene's Choice (no image) http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.31470.0 pink
Janal http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.58542.0 deep pink / almost mauve
Liverton Lady (no image) http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.31035.0
Parador http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.47612.2 Yellow blend / tan
Patricia Miller (no image) http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.27735.0 white
Sybil Hipkin http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.23636.0 yellow
Vanamali (no image) http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.39312.0 mauve

That's from HMF. Each link has a little bit of info on each rose, most of them not a heck of a lot. If you think it's a J&P rose, then COLOR MAGIC (JACmag) is your best bet as that's the only one they intro'd that year according to HMF. It's an offspring of Spellbinder & an unknown (undisclosed). It's actually a pretty rose.. I think I have one in my yard somewhere in the back yard.


Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/TweetsnTreats
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
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porkpal
Mar 28, 2013 10:04 AM CST
Of course it also may have been one of the "test" roses that was not considered successful enough to make it into the market. Could/would J&P answer your questions?
Porkpal
Name: Mary
My little patch of paradise (Zone 7b)
Gardening dilettante, that's me!
Plays in the sandbox Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Dog Lover Daylilies The WITWIT Badge
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fiwit
Mar 28, 2013 10:10 AM CST
Thanks! I didn't even know where to begin. Since every other tag I've found on the fence is a JP tag, I'm assuming this is, too.

You are awesome! Thumbs up
Northwest Georgia Daylily Society
I'm going to retire and live off of my savings. Not sure what I'll do that second week.
My yard marches to the beat of a bohemian drummer...
Name: Mary
My little patch of paradise (Zone 7b)
Gardening dilettante, that's me!
Plays in the sandbox Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Dog Lover Daylilies The WITWIT Badge
Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Bluebonnets Birds Region: Georgia Composter Garden Ideas: Master Level
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fiwit
Mar 28, 2013 10:11 AM CST
porkpal said:Of course it also may have been one of the "test" roses that was not considered successful enough to make it into the market. Could/would J&P answer your questions?


Never occurred to me to ask. Hilarious! I'm actually getting rid of it, but wanted to be able to tell the next owner what color it might be.
Northwest Georgia Daylily Society
I'm going to retire and live off of my savings. Not sure what I'll do that second week.
My yard marches to the beat of a bohemian drummer...
Name: Dora
Calgary (Zone 3a)
Lilies Clematis Bulbs Seed Starter Enjoys or suffers cold winters Region: Canadian
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dorab
Mar 28, 2013 10:51 AM CST
There is a J&P rose called Limited Edition (registered name JACref), but it was introduced in 1984. Here's the information from the ARS encyclopedia
HT, mr, 1984, J&P; flowers large, dbl., no fragrance; foliage medium size, medium green, semi-glossy; upright growth; PP5037 [seedling × seedling]

But no picture, sorry. Maybe you should take one if it blooms.

(edit) Upon reflection and referral to my ARS guidebook, the date in the entry above would be the date of registration with ARS OR the date of introduction if the rose wasn't registered. Many roses are on the market several years before registration with ARS making 1978 plausible as the rose's date of introduction. Then it was registered in 1984.
Dora
[Last edited by dorab - Mar 28, 2013 11:18 AM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #380956 (6)
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Charter ATP Member Irises Salvias Xeriscape Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Procrastinator The WITWIT Badge Region: Colorado Enjoys or suffers cold winters Cat Lover
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Skiekitty
Mar 28, 2013 11:16 AM CST
Dora - Odd. HMF doesn't have anything under "Limited Edition" and JACref redirects to JACreflo - which is Black Cherry.

http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.39497.1

However, Dave's Garden has JACref & JACyef showing to "Shining Hour" (http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/165867/) even though HMF shows Shining Hour as only JACyef (http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.5727).

There is, however, a 1976 rose in HMF that's "First Edition" http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.2759

Mary - Can you take a picture of the tag? Sometimes the tags themselves may show a clue (for instance, some use a "cloud" shape, others are circular)
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/TweetsnTreats
Name: Mary
My little patch of paradise (Zone 7b)
Gardening dilettante, that's me!
Plays in the sandbox Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Dog Lover Daylilies The WITWIT Badge
Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Bluebonnets Birds Region: Georgia Composter Garden Ideas: Master Level
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fiwit
Mar 28, 2013 12:55 PM CST
Thumb of 2013-03-28/fiwit/58bdef
Northwest Georgia Daylily Society
I'm going to retire and live off of my savings. Not sure what I'll do that second week.
My yard marches to the beat of a bohemian drummer...
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Charter ATP Member Irises Salvias Xeriscape Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Procrastinator The WITWIT Badge Region: Colorado Enjoys or suffers cold winters Cat Lover
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Skiekitty
Mar 28, 2013 1:02 PM CST
Ok, I'm going to venture & say it's definitely a J&P rose. Their older tags are that same shape & you can see a hint of their green on the side. http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/tokens-tags/181082-jackson...

Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/TweetsnTreats
Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
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Calif_Sue
Mar 28, 2013 1:17 PM CST

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Not sure why Shining Hour has the wrong aka cultivar names on DG but I'll report it so it can be removed. Glare
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[Last edited by Calif_Sue - Mar 28, 2013 1:18 PM (+)]
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Name: Dora
Calgary (Zone 3a)
Lilies Clematis Bulbs Seed Starter Enjoys or suffers cold winters Region: Canadian
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dorab
Mar 28, 2013 1:27 PM CST
Skiekitty said:Dora - Odd. HMF doesn't have anything under "Limited Edition" and JACref redirects to JACreflo - which is Black Cherry.

)


I think it is probable that the rose has been out of production for some time, especially since it is not in J&P's current listings. Hence, not in HMF's database. Whereas the ARS database includes all roses that have been registered, whether anyone now grows them or not.

Black Cherry, Shining Hour and the 'other' First Edition roses are all Floribundas, which kind of puts them out of the running. The last rose's proper name is Huguenot 300 in the ARS database--but the hybridizer is French and the rose may have been given other names in other markets.

Might Mary inquire of J&P if they have a picture of the rose in their archives?

Dora
[Last edited by dorab - Mar 28, 2013 1:29 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #381010 (11)
Name: Mary
My little patch of paradise (Zone 7b)
Gardening dilettante, that's me!
Plays in the sandbox Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Dog Lover Daylilies The WITWIT Badge
Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Bluebonnets Birds Region: Georgia Composter Garden Ideas: Master Level
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fiwit
Mar 28, 2013 2:46 PM CST
Mary might ask them. BUT Mary has found one of her friends who is happy to give all her roses a home without knowing for sure what they are or what they look like, so Mary is not going to worry about it anymore.

Thanks everyone!
Northwest Georgia Daylily Society
I'm going to retire and live off of my savings. Not sure what I'll do that second week.
My yard marches to the beat of a bohemian drummer...
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Mar 28, 2013 3:47 PM CST
Too bad - mystery unsolved...
Porkpal
Name: Dora
Calgary (Zone 3a)
Lilies Clematis Bulbs Seed Starter Enjoys or suffers cold winters Region: Canadian
Cat Lover Winter Sowing Roses Garden Ideas: Level 1
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dorab
Mar 28, 2013 4:00 PM CST
It's nice to have accomodating friends though.
Dora
Name: Mary
My little patch of paradise (Zone 7b)
Gardening dilettante, that's me!
Plays in the sandbox Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Dog Lover Daylilies The WITWIT Badge
Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Bluebonnets Birds Region: Georgia Composter Garden Ideas: Master Level
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fiwit
Mar 28, 2013 4:31 PM CST
I love having accomodating friends, but am not fond of unsolved mysteries, so I just contacted J&P. I'll report back if I hear anything. It's a little frustrating -- there were five tags hanging on the fence, but I only found 3 rosebushes planted near them. THere was a tag for a peace rose, and I know for a fact she took that with her when she sold the house.

All the other tags are JP, so it's safe to assume the mystery rose is as well. The other tags are: Honor, Oklahoma, Tropicana and Peace (which I know is gone). There's also a tag that says "Double Delight (Andell)"

I have no clue what I dug up today, but when they bloom for my friend, I hope we can figure it out (if she cares).

Thing is, they're all listed as Hybrid Teas, but at least one of them acts like a climber. HTs don't climb, do they?
Northwest Georgia Daylily Society
I'm going to retire and live off of my savings. Not sure what I'll do that second week.
My yard marches to the beat of a bohemian drummer...
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Mar 28, 2013 4:39 PM CST
The root stock of the hybrid tea might have been a climber and has taken over. (?)
Porkpal
Name: Dora
Calgary (Zone 3a)
Lilies Clematis Bulbs Seed Starter Enjoys or suffers cold winters Region: Canadian
Cat Lover Winter Sowing Roses Garden Ideas: Level 1
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dorab
Mar 28, 2013 4:45 PM CST
There is a classification for climbing hybrid teas, yes. They are annotated as Cl HT.

An additional note:
It is a very small classification, and many of the roses classed as Cl HT are quite old. This appears to be the most recent one http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=53761

This may be because there is another classification just for climbing roses, and any climbing hybrid tea probably has enough different genetic influences to make it easier to justify placing it in the climbing rose section.
Dora
[Last edited by dorab - Mar 28, 2013 5:04 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #381092 (17)
Name: Mary
My little patch of paradise (Zone 7b)
Gardening dilettante, that's me!
Plays in the sandbox Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Dog Lover Daylilies The WITWIT Badge
Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Bluebonnets Birds Region: Georgia Composter Garden Ideas: Master Level
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fiwit
Mar 28, 2013 5:39 PM CST
Well, this house was built in 1987, and I moved here in 2007, so whatever's here was here before 2007....
Northwest Georgia Daylily Society
I'm going to retire and live off of my savings. Not sure what I'll do that second week.
My yard marches to the beat of a bohemian drummer...
Name: Mary
My little patch of paradise (Zone 7b)
Gardening dilettante, that's me!
Plays in the sandbox Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Dog Lover Daylilies The WITWIT Badge
Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Bluebonnets Birds Region: Georgia Composter Garden Ideas: Master Level
Image
fiwit
Mar 29, 2013 2:17 PM CST
Hi Mary,
Sorry we are unable to ID this rose from the tag anymore. Thanks for checking though.

Thanks,
Stephan

Stephan Winterfeldt
Staff Horticulturist
J & P Park Acquisitions, Inc.
Northwest Georgia Daylily Society
I'm going to retire and live off of my savings. Not sure what I'll do that second week.
My yard marches to the beat of a bohemian drummer...
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Mar 29, 2013 2:50 PM CST
Well, nice try. At least you got a response.
Porkpal

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