Hi I planted grass seed in this patch, in the pic, it was a patch that was dug up, the soil sifted into a fine loam, pretty much perfect to sow grass, or so I thought, as you can see didn't go too well, I'm in Scotland I planted late October last year, weather was fine, but then we got a cold snap, by early December the grass was there, but as you see it was patchy very.

So come Feb 2022, we got quite a good spell of weather, I hesitated on seeding again, but then decided I would two days later it bloody snowed, lucky white heather or what, checked the result a few weeks later and same result, the patches never took, before I seeded, or over seeded, the second time round, obviously the soil was firmer, I did give it a good rake, just on the surface though, maybe a few (cm), then I sprinkled fresh soil on top, but as you see the result was dismal.

I believe my preparation for the first time I seeded was good, as I said soil was riddled, I put down fertiliser, I used sunlight and shade, seeds, I got them from Boston seeds, who seem to have a good reputation, has my timing just been off? on both occasions, with the weather taking a turn for the worst?

Today I decided to try another attempt the big bald patch, that you see in the pic, wasn't as bare, but I dug it up today, to loosen and soften the soil, and some of the grass there did suffer, but it was patchy, not good, and it's now over seeded again as another attempt, I'm hoping it will take this time, however I'd rather not do this for all the patches, and that's why I've came here for advice, as it may fail again, if there is a better, dare I say an easier way? to salvage the bald patches, or is digging the soil to soften it again really the only option, I'd really appreciate some help and advice going forward, Thanks.

1) is there enough direct sun hitting the ground there?
Just because the supplier claims the the grass will grow in the shade... doesn't make it true!
2) do you have standing water there after it rains?

I think I'd plant bracken...

In the Deep south (America) creeping liriope is a very successful turf substitute for the shade.
https://plants.ces.ncsu.edu/pl...

The key to seeding lawns is cool temperatures, not COLD. Ground preparation is very important. Then the seed needs good light to germinate and grow and regular waterings.
Assuming the soil is not too acidic or alkaline, the seed should do well. You may have waited to late in the season the first time.
I have always just raked a combination of peat moss and soil within my bare patches. Then I overseed. Once it germinates is when I apply fertilizer and not much in the beginning.
I do not cut it or mow it until in gets very long, like 4" tall!!
Mower blade has to be extremely sharp for the first cut. Otherwise it rips the young grass plants rather then cutting them.
New seeded areas need to be kept moist for the first 3-6 months depending upon temperature. Not wet like a swamp but moist. On the flip side, if you don't water enough, it will not develop a good root system.
Grass is not easy to get started. But I suspect that perhaps either you did not seed heavy enough or water enough. But keep in mind, most you lawns do not like temperatures at or near freezing. Cool yes, freezing no.
Good luck!!!

In Scotland... I can NOT conceive of a need for watering grass seed...
you know Scotland... Where they invented golf?

Pretty much why my feeling is that the spot is inappropriate for turf... due to the shade, most likely.

Otherwise... that turf would practically grow itself...

stone said: 1) is there enough direct sun hitting the ground there?
Just because the supplier claims the the grass will grow in the shade... doesn't make it true!
2) do you have standing water there after it rains?

I think I'd plant bracken...

In the Deep south (America) creeping liriope is a very successful turf substitute for the shade.
https://plants.ces.ncsu.edu/pl...

Hi thanks for the reply, yes the 6 foot fence is a nuisance, but I live in a rented council house, but it's overkill lol, to answer your question yes I think it does get direct sunlight, in the morning when it's rising it does hit that area, and late afternoon it will hit that area again, is it enough I'm not sure,

Here's the mixture I bought, (Contains: 50% amenity perennial ryegrass, 32% strong creeping red fescue, 10% chewings fescue, 6% slender creeping red fescue and 2% highland bent).

Know one seemed to answer, the question that concerned me the most, when I tried to overseed, would it matter the soil was firm, and the seeds weren't strong enough to break through?

The harder the soil surface, the tougher it will be on the seeds.
Is it really hard, like baked concrete?
Or hard because it is too dry?
If the soil was loosened properly in the beginning of your project, then I would assume that it is still soft enough.
Not only is light important but water is as well.

Well, you haven't answered whether there was standing water... Definitely a kill condition.

firm soil... Not meaningful without context.

Usually after the rains have begun softening the soil, and some hay or something strewn about to hold moisture... you can't really prevent the turf from germination.

stone said: Well, you haven't answered whether there was standing water... Definitely a kill condition.

firm soil... Not meaningful without context.

Usually after the rains have begun softening the soil, and some hay or something strewn about to hold moisture... you can't really prevent the turf from germination.

Hi thanks, yes there was standing water, and it did puddle when it rained, I tried to get it as even as possible, but there was a natural slope, yes the soil I riddled was really fine and soft, but it did have clay, in it to begin with, so even though I got it really fine I imagine there is still clay content in the soil, I'm trying to give you all the information best I can, I just want this project to have a decent outcome.

I put alot of hard work and effort into this, when you look along the lawn in the pic, the area I seeded, runs up the highest part of the fence, then stops, as the lower fence begins, this area was all weeds not good, I decided to remove the weeds, when I stuck the weed tool into the turf I hit something hard, I then realised the whole area had bricks underneath, I think it was foundations for two old coal boxes, so I removed a tonne of bricks dug down 6 inches riddled all the soil, lay it back down, fertiliser, waited a few days then seeded, and here I am.

And it's really no better than when I started, only upside is there's no weeds yet, the odd clover, but nothing too bad, was my grass mixture a good mix, or is that bloody fence always going to be the issue, stone what is bracken? could I source that kind of grass you mentioned in the UK, something that will even grow in the shade of a big bloody fence, I do think my timing has been off as well, and there's no excuse that's down to me, but I'd like to make this work if I can, Thanks.

Bracken is a fern...

Clay is good... holds moisture & fertility.

I always hate to hear about how much work someone is putting into their garden... When the intended crop is turf...

I think the soil is fine... Although... standing water will always be a problem... Find a source of fill... make sure that you don't have puddles.

I think that you are always going to have spotty performance... turf needs sunlight...

Liriope is common... even in Scotland.

If you can encourage the clover... that would be to the good.

stone said: Bracken is a fern...

Clay is good... holds moisture & fertility.

I always hate to hear about how much work someone is putting into their garden... When the intended crop is turf...

I think the soil is fine... Although... standing water will always be a problem... Find a source of fill... make sure that you don't have puddles.

I think that you are always going to have spotty performance... turf needs sunlight...

Liriope is common... even in Scotland.

If you can encourage the clover... that would be to the good.

Thanks, but clover is a weed is it not? I also noticed today that daisy's are popping up as well, I've used the last of the seed today so just need to wait I suppose, I have a question that seems to get mixed responses when asked, what is best when sowing seeds, 1) sprinkle seed then just a light rake, as to contact the soil, 2) seed, light rake then gently trample in as to contact soil, 3) sprinkle seed, then cover them with a light layer of top soil, what one is best, Thanks.

Start_over said: Thanks, but clover is a weed is it not?

I also noticed today that daisy's are popping up as well,

I've used the last of the seed today so just need to wait I suppose, I have a question that seems to get mixed responses when asked, what is best when sowing seeds, 1) sprinkle seed then just a light rake, as to contact the soil, 2) seed, light rake then gently trample in as to contact soil, 3) sprinkle seed, then cover them with a light layer of top soil, what one is best, Thanks.

In the old days, clover and daisies were included in the turf mix as a matter of course.
That clover is valuable... puts atmospheric nitrogen into the soil and probably most importantly... helps to break through those hard soils... you know the ones where the shovel stops... and it's like digging through pavement?

As far as how to do the seeds? pick one...
I don't see the option where you strew some material to keep the soil moist while the seeds are germinating...

Have you ever watched them spray that green fibrous material along the roadside?
There's seed mixed up in that material... Some packages of wildflower seeds come with that stuff mixed in...

Most people just strew some straw or whatever... Far more important than the questions that you're asking!

stone said: In the old days, clover and daisies were included in the turf mix as a matter of course.
That clover is valuable... puts atmospheric nitrogen into the soil and probably most importantly... helps to break through those hard soils... you know the ones where the shovel stops... and it's like digging through pavement?

As far as how to do the seeds? pick one...
I don't see the option where you strew some material to keep the soil moist while the seeds are germinating...

Have you ever watched them spray that green fibrous material along the roadside?
There's seed mixed up in that material... Some packages of wildflower seeds come with that stuff mixed in...

Most people just strew some straw or whatever... Far more important than the questions that you're asking!

I thought about the straw option, but thought that was mainly to stop the birds pinching the seeds, also I visited a couple of other forums and they said the straw was not necessary in the UK because of our climate, meaning it rains alot lol, I opted for a net instead to keep the birds off, still got more seeding to do round my back garden though, so is straw a good option then? or hay? not sure what green fibrous stuff you mean though lol, Thanks.

I would plant liriope and forget grass when you've tried & failed so many times!

If I was stuck on grass... I absolutely would do everything possible to avoid spreading seed again... And that includes the straw... especially includes the straw!!!
I don't know what birds you are worried about... but the straw is to keep the moisture present... make the seeds germinate... Which they don't seem to be doing....

That stuff sprayed along the road? Hydroseeding:
https://www.tranbc.ca/2019/01/...

stone said: I would plant liriope and forget grass when you've tried & failed so many times!

If I was stuck on grass... I absolutely would do everything possible to avoid spreading seed again... And that includes the straw... especially includes the straw!!!
I don't know what birds you are worried about... but the straw is to keep the moisture present... make the seeds germinate... Which they don't seem to be doing....

That stuff sprayed along the road? Hydroseeding:
https://www.tranbc.ca/2019/01/...

Hi not really sure I understand this post, when you say if I'm stuck on grass, but don't seed again, are you saying leave it for now and let nature take it's coarse, or are you saying just forget about grass, Thanks.

Hi stone, I just remembered, what was the final straw before I began my preparation to improve this patch of lawn.

My neighbour downstairs, I'm four in a block, was getting a new heating system fitted, and the idiots fitting it dumped the old boiler, radiators on that patch of grass, I went mental the grass had turned white within hours they totally killed it, they said they thought that area was my neighbour's what a response, oh we never meant to ruin your lawn, we thought it was your neighbour's lawn we were ruining sorry.

Anyway after my rant, do you think the soil could still be acidic? or would it have washed away by now, I also riddled all the soil but I used the same soil, it was the summer of last year.

Not sure why it would be acidic...
Was there anything (besides water) in the boiler?

I did suspect that your grass had been drowned...

"stuck on grass" means unwilling to give up on something that isn't working and try something else.

If there wasn't anything but water dumped... grass seed should grow.

stone said: Not sure why it would be acidic...
Was there anything (besides water) in the boiler?

I did suspect that your grass had been drowned...

"stuck on grass" means unwilling to give up on something that isn't working and try something else.

If there wasn't anything but water dumped... grass seed should grow.

No wasn't just water it killed my grass within hours, it was an old boiler and radiators, full of rust and what ever was in it.

Was there very hot water in the boiler?
Rust will not hurt the lawn.
Get rid of the net and seed HEAVILY, walk over the seeded area and seed again at a normal rate, cover with finely chopped straw.
Clover is better than bare dirt if green is all you want.

Start_over said: Hi thanks for the reply, yes the 6 foot fence is a nuisance, but I live in a rented council house, but it's overkill lol, to answer your question yes I think it does get direct sunlight, in the morning when it's rising it does hit that area, and late afternoon it will hit that area again, is it enough I'm not sure,

Here's the mixture I bought, (Contains: 50% amenity perennial ryegrass, 32% strong creeping red fescue, 10% chewings fescue, 6% slender creeping red fescue and 2% highland bent).

Know one seemed to answer, the question that concerned me the most, when I tried to overseed, would it matter the soil was firm, and the seeds weren't strong enough to break through?

Im a little late to the game. But I have Fescue sprouting and growing in compacted stone drive way.
Seed will sprout and find its way as long as it has water and food.
Keep at it , you will find a variety that will grow