And the phlox being an annual ---- well, by September they will have bitten the dust here, their seeds will be already on the ground waiting for spring to renew the cycle.

dave said:When adding "Habitat" as a gallery was proposed, we all knew and understood that it was being created to show a plant growing in its normal, natural and wild environment, as opposed to an artificial environment such as a garden, greenhouse or basement.

I see absolutely no reason to change the word because it is perfect. We don't need to add "Native" or anything (and Jay is right that the word Native opens up a different conversation). The word Habitat means exactly what we're looking for.

So, please let's continue to only use Habitat for the right reason. If you have a photo of a plant growing in a garden, use the gallery "Entire plant".

Ya know... I should never just read through forums when I'm bored...I run the risk of getting in trouble.

Dave, YOU are a master gardener. I'm not. Your database moderators are experts. I'm not. I would hazard a guess that many of your site members are not, either. We came here to learn. I would never know that "botanists consider habitat to be whatever..." as someone else stated. I'm not a botanist. I don't hang out with botanists (unless I inadvertently know some here and don't realize it). I'm with Ann on this one (and I've read the entire thread). If nothing else, take the word "habitat" in your database and give it one of those cool underline things where you hover your mouse and it explains what it means to the non-botanist. That solves the issue of some people not being sure which item to check (habitat v. entire plant).

Hashing things out in forums, or having all the moderators understand something is great, but unless it's communicated to the general public, it's.... ummm.. a less than optimal experience for the average user. And no matter how many times you tell someone to not take a database decline personally, some people will. Explaining up front what the category means is an easy way to avoid that, and an easy way to make this awesome site even awesomer.

Just my 2 cents. Your mileage may vary, and it's ok to disagree with me. I'm used to being disagreed with.

I like that idea Mary.
Is that possible Dave?

I can do a hover-over message, probably, or a asterisk note, if you all agreed on what kind of language I should put in there. It would need to be 10 words or less.

10 words or less? But I'm a talkative gal!


How about something like: "Habitat" means the plant's natural environment, not a garden (last 3 words optional)

I thought I knew what habitat is but perhaps someone can clarify the definition for these (2) examples? If I have an acre pond and aquatics are growing in it (planted - not ones that appear on their own), would that not be considered their habitat as they are aquatics? My other question is if, on the same acreage, there is a natural stream and various bog plants growing in or along side of the stream (some volunteers, some not), is that not their habitat as they are classified as bog plants? I am not referring to the man-made concrete ponds/swales, etc., but natural features on the land. Thanks!

I would think Habitat would mean a plant growing in an environment that is native to it.
Like when you visit the desert, mountains and other places around the world where plants can be found in their original habitat.

valleylynn said:... in their original habitat.

I apologize for being dense but I am still not getting this. Are you saying that if I photograph Canna glauca, for instance, growing in a boggy area in Texas and a Canna glauca growing in a boggy area in the West Indies, the photo in Texas should be submitted as "whole/entire plant" and the West Indies photo as "habitat" view as research indicates that the West Indies (and South America) is its original point of origin? I guess I perceive the "habitat", in this case - a bog, being the same regardless of the geo location. I have been recently submitting photos though none as "habitat" and would like to understand this .

OldGardener, I understand and sympathize with your confusion. Lynn used the word "native" in her post, but we've already had the "native habitat" vs. "natural habitat" debate in this forum and decided against the former, mainly because it would open up so many cans of worms. As long as it's not a man-made bog in your garden, a boggy area in Texas would qualify as a natural habitat and a photo of the plant in the boggy area would belong in the "habitat" gallery for that plant.

The most precise definition of habitat is that it is the area that provides all of the resources necessary for a population of a given species to be self sustaining. For animals, this often means that "habitat" covers a lot of ground (no pun intended). The habitat of the whooping crane includes the karst swamps of the Northwest Territories (nesting habitat), coastal marshes of Texas (wintering habitat), and numerous wetland complexes (migratory habitat) in between.

Since plants don't move (very quickly), their habitat is generally easier to quantify, a 10 acre oak woodland may well be all the habitat a population of yellow lady's slipper orchid needs to sustain itself, for example. Even this definition is a bit fuzzy, though, we often don't know enough about plants to say with great certainty what their habitat requirements are.

A more general definition of habitat is that it is the area where an organism naturally lives. The problem with that definition is that "natural" can be interpreted a variety of ways. It is often assumed to mean "without human influence". Thing is, no plant on Earth today is free from human influence, so you end up having a debate about what "natural" means. On the other hand, if you remove "natural", you end up with a definition that is essentially meaningless.

zuzu said:OldGardener, I understand and sympathize with your confusion. Lynn used the word "native" in her post, but we've already had the "native habitat" vs. "natural habitat" debate in this forum and decided against the former, mainly because it would open up so many cans of worms. As long as it's not a man-made bog in your garden, a boggy area in Texas would qualify as a natural habitat and a photo of the plant in the boggy area would belong in the "habitat" gallery for that plant.

Terrific! That is what I thought but somewhere along this thread, I started second guessing that. Thank you so much for the clarification (and for having sooooo much patience with me ).