Mike said: But I wouldn't expect AI to distinguish between information that pertains to rose midge (Dasineura rhodophaga) versus the blueberry gall midge (Dasineura oxycoccana) or the "biting midge" (Ceratopogonidae) that is often mistaken as a mosquito (unless you live in Scotland, where everybody knows what a biting midge is). If one were to simply ask AI to describe the predators of "midge", it's probably going to piece together information that pertains to numerous different types of midges...

Mike with all due respect, if you ask about Rose Midge, AI refer to the right one.

porkpal said: Wonderful garden - so much room for roses!

But you said you cannot cite the AI's data source or references, thus we cannot verify it or check the context. So, I'll continue to rely on the horticulturalists and entomologists at research universities such as NCSU and OU, not to mention my own experience.

To be fair, rose midge does has the occasional predator in the larval stage, so I should clarify what I meant when I said that it has none. I was speaking in terms of what is known as integrated pest management, or IPM, where a large population of a beneficial predator is purposefully introduced into the garden to control the population of another, damaging insect. None of the published research I have read and tracked over 15 years has demonstrated such a beneficial predator to exist.

For example, about 7 or 8 years ago, the Stratiolaelaps mite was noted for feeding on pupating rose midge. But it had not been proven as an effective control. Several trials were planned, but I did not hear of any success. So yes, technically speaking, there are predators, but none of them are a practical solution to the problem, so far as I know.

Mike, twenty years ago, it was still possible for humans to occasionally win against computers in chess. However, today, the tables have turned, and computers have become so advanced that the chance of a human winning is almost non-existent. We must acknowledge this reality and embrace the power of AI to our advantage in various aspects of life.

Mike…

AI says:
As of my last update in September 2021, Stratiolaelaps is known to be a predatory mite that feeds on various soil-dwelling pests, including fungus gnats and thrips pupae, but I do not have specific information about its predation on rose midge pupae.

Rose midges (Dasineura spp.) are small flies that can be pests in rose gardens, with the larvae (maggots) causing damage by feeding on the young leaves and flower buds. If Stratiolaelaps mites are present in the soil, they might help in controlling other soil-dwelling pests, but their specific interaction with rose midges would require further research to determine their impact on rose midge pupae.

Keep in mind that scientific knowledge and research often evolve over time, so it's possible that more recent studies have shed light on this matter. For the most current and accurate information, I recommend consulting entomological research articles or getting in touch with local agricultural extension services. They can provide specific and up-to-date information on pest management strategies for your particular region and situation.

PS. Sorry for keep posting AI generated content, but it's such fun and helped me already in different matters.

Two weeks ago you came to us with a post asking a question about what could possibly be causing blind shoots. I immediately thought of rose midge, but you had never heard of it. So in the interest of being as helpful as possible, I took time to explain what it is, how it damages roses, and to mention everything I've learned about controlling it, from the published research I've read and tracked over 15 years, and what I've learned from my own experience.

In all the research I've read, there is no known IPM approach to controlling midge with beneficial predators; if you can find a research article that demonstrates meaningful success using IPM, please do share the link with us.

I'll say no more on the subject. From now on I will keep my own counsel, and let others figure it out however they wish to pursue it.

Mike, everyone, including me, is especially thankful for your willingness to share knowledge. It's up to you and everybody else to decide the level of engagement in any subject.

Interesting as I was just discussing this with my DH wondering the access AI has to peer reviewed papers that are blocked to non subscribers. Much is taken from these articles , but many details and the methodology are also missing in the quest to make them more accessible to the lay person. Then there are always the old articles that were never digitised to begin with. There was a flurry of research in the early 1900s when they first appeared in rose greenhouses which is where I first read about tobacco tea, smoke and frass being effective against them. Research is ongoing and I'm happy for alternatives to the neonictinoides. Thanks all for the discussion. One never knows when something new appears that's useful.😊😉

I was wondering if anyone looked into Soldier Beetles aka Leatherwings (cantharidae).

The following link says under "Rose Midge" - "pulpations occurs in the soil." Under "Leatherwings or Soldier Beetles" it states : lavae are also predaceous but live in the soil - feeding on soil dwelling invertebrates. https://ipm.ucanr.edu/PMG/PEST...

Here's another link - under "Biology" - - it states Soldier Beetles eat eggs and larvae. Larvae transform into pupae.
https://extension.umn.edu/yard...

The following link mentions flowers that attract Soldier Beetles example marigolds zinnias golden rod:
https://gardeniaorganic.com/wh...

This link states under "Food" : "Adults eat nectar, pollen, other insects; larvae are fluid-feeding predators, feed on insect eggs and larvae"
https://bugguide.net/node/view...

And lastly, the following link states: "Soldier beetles overwinter in the soil as pupae. In early spring, the adults emerge and mate only once. The female then lays her eggs in the soil.
When the larvae hatch, they remain in the soil where they feed on the eggs and larvae of harmful insect pests. Soldier beetle larvae are important predators of grasshopper eggs, and help to keep these destructive garden pests under control."
https://www.gardeningknowhow.c...

I have no idea as to whether introducing Soldier Beetles or any other beneficial predator would eradicate/control Rose Midges in one's garden. However, I thought it might be worth it to suggest the possiblity.

Elena, I think I responded a bit harshly in some of my posts above, and for that I'm sorry. Rose midge is a "trigger" subject for me. It has caused so much damage over the years that it sets me in a foul mood just talking about it. But I realize you were just trying to be helpful by doing some research on your own, and that's a good thing.

Thank you, Mike. No problem.