Post a reply

Image
Feb 8, 2024 5:45 PM CST
Name: Anne
Texas (Zone 8b)
Bee Lover Plant and/or Seed Trader Tomato Heads Region: Texas Seed Starter Peppers
Heirlooms Greenhouse Frogs and Toads Vegetable Grower
Iochroma said: The GMO seed comes with a set of terms that says no seeds, plants, or fruit may be sold; nor can any thing derived from it.


That makes me feel a little better but its still gross thinking people will be eating them.
Ban the GMO tomato!
Avatar for Iochroma
Feb 8, 2024 5:50 PM CST
San Francisco Bay area (Zone 9a)
I received an answer on my question. The pollen is viable and the variety is self-fertile.
No commercial or remunerative use may be made from the variety or its offspring. The representative assured me they are not like some companies that have sued farmers over GMO pollen. They're not out to get you.
Image
Feb 8, 2024 6:19 PM CST
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River Twp, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Bee Lover Butterflies Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Greenhouse Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Enjoys or suffers cold winters
A lot of great info there, Ken and Iochroma! My main thought is "there have been a lot of advances in the field of genetics since I was in college in the early 1970s!" Obviously there could be both good and bad outcomes, as with almost any other sort of new technology, but I find it very exciting. Smiling
“Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight." ~ Albert Schweitzer
C/F temp conversion
Image
Feb 8, 2024 7:20 PM CST
N. California (Zone 10b)
I now know enough to say I would be interested in growing and eating this new tomato.
Can you imagine a purple pasta sauce?
Image
Feb 8, 2024 7:52 PM CST
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River Twp, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Bee Lover Butterflies Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Greenhouse Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Enjoys or suffers cold winters
Purple pasta sauce doesn't sound "right" to me - any more than blue (purple?) mashed potatoes... but maybe purple salsa? Or, green if mixed with yellow tomatoes... Green Grin!
“Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight." ~ Albert Schweitzer
C/F temp conversion
Image
Feb 8, 2024 8:34 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Ken Isaac
Bountiful, Utah, USA (Zone 7a)
Grow stuff!
Hortica said: Ken, we don't import GMO wheat.

My misquote! I meant to say we do import some wheat- not that we import GMO wheat.
As for other foodstuffs or feed, my point was that is up to the honesty and integrity of those we trust to grow the food we import- as much as it is for domestic producers to be honest about GMO labeling. Ag inspectors have found banned chemical residues before...
Owner: Bountiful Exotics Nursery
Follow me at
https://www.instagram.com/boun...
Image
Feb 8, 2024 8:44 PM CST
Name: Sally
central Maryland (Zone 7b)
See you in the funny papers!
Charter ATP Member Frogs and Toads Houseplants Keeper of Poultry Vegetable Grower Region: Maryland
Composter Native Plants and Wildflowers Organic Gardener Region: United States of America Cat Lover Birds
Curious to see if the color holds up in cooking- like purple cabbage, or does not, like purple green beans I've grown that turn green when cooked. Purple pasta sauce would be pretty groovy, baby, lol. I don't know if I'd like it lol.
Plant it and they will come.
Image
Feb 8, 2024 8:52 PM CST
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River Twp, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Bee Lover Butterflies Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Greenhouse Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Enjoys or suffers cold winters
Sally, that's an interesting question; I grow purple green beans every year, which, as you said, turn green when cooked. I think the only "blue" tomato I've grown has been Indigo Rose and I don't think I ever used it in a "cooked" form. My head is kind of spinning right now with all of the possibilities and implications of this new tomato!
“Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight." ~ Albert Schweitzer
C/F temp conversion
Image
Feb 8, 2024 9:11 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Ken Isaac
Bountiful, Utah, USA (Zone 7a)
Grow stuff!
Like this?

Thumb of 2024-02-09/kenisaac/a94ff7
Owner: Bountiful Exotics Nursery
Follow me at
https://www.instagram.com/boun...
Image
Feb 10, 2024 8:27 PM CST
Name: Zoë
Albuquerque NM, Elev 5310 ft (Zone 7b)
Bee Lover Salvias Region: New Mexico Herbs Container Gardener Composter
Cat Lover Butterflies Bookworm Birds Enjoys or suffers hot summers
Google spies on me and plants articles in my news feed related to what I read online. Here's an interesting article. Quite short
https://geneticliteracyproject...
Image
Feb 10, 2024 8:58 PM CST
Name: Critter (Jill)
Frederick, MD (Zone 6b)
Charter ATP Member Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Critters Allowed Butterflies Hummingbirder Cat Lover
Bee Lover Region: Mid-Atlantic Cottage Gardener Garden Photography Tropicals Hibiscus
While I think the existence of blue potatoes is groovy (and they are a naturally occurring variant that's been around for centuries, I believe), I feel weird trying to eat them. Purple pasta sauce (if the purple holds up during cooking) would probably be the same.

That said, I recently (tomato seed swap) picked up a packet of 'Dancing with Smurfs' JUST for the name!

I have no concerns, myself, about safety or nutrition of GMO food. Remember when microwaves first came out (OK, now I'm showing my age) and so many people were convinced that using them would make food unsafe or at least less nutritious? Turns out some things like veggies retain a lot more nutrients when steamed in the microwave rather than being boiled on the stove. Anyway, I think there will always be concerns about new technology, some more valid than others, and the answer is to look into it and come to your own conclusions.

There are valid environmental concerns about "roundup-ready" grains. The one that gave me pause was more of a sideways consequence... by stripping fields of all plant life other than the crop, you create a lot of acreage with zero biodiveristy. Hmm.

GMO is definitely a hot button topic, and I'm glad we can discuss and debate it without the kind of flaming I've seen elsewhere. (That's one reason most of my online time is spent here!) I tip my hat to you.
We're all learners, doers, teachers.
Image
Feb 11, 2024 7:08 AM CST
Name: Sally
central Maryland (Zone 7b)
See you in the funny papers!
Charter ATP Member Frogs and Toads Houseplants Keeper of Poultry Vegetable Grower Region: Maryland
Composter Native Plants and Wildflowers Organic Gardener Region: United States of America Cat Lover Birds
I tried Dancing with Smurfs, found it totally bland but someone I gave them to liked them.
Sorry, not 'on topic'
Plant it and they will come.
Last edited by sallyg Feb 11, 2024 7:09 AM Icon for preview
Image
Feb 11, 2024 9:39 AM CST
Name: stone
near Macon Georgia (USA) (Zone 8a)
Garden Sages Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Plant Identifier
critterologist said:There are valid environmental concerns about "roundup-ready" grains. The one that gave me pause was more of a sideways consequence... by stripping fields of all plant life other than the crop, you create a lot of acreage with zero biodiveristy.

I agree
of course... The so-called super weeds like palmer amaranth kinda makes a bit of biodiversity in those fields... And... there's a corresponding increase in roundup sprayed over your breakfast cereal...

I think creating a crop that necessarily increases the amount of weed killers in our diets is a bad idea in general...

Remember when they were assuring us that it was so safe that we could sprinkle it on our dinner with no problems?

When the original post was started, I googled whether snap dragons were edible...

Reminds me of stuff from my youth...
if we combined genes from hogs, lactuca, tomatoes, and inserted into the wheat field...

We could carry a pocketful of wheat on our hikes... send into space as astronaut food...
A BLT in every grain...

Back to roundup ready...
They got those genes from some pond scum growing on the roundup tanks...
I don't want pond scum in my food...
Remember all those pets that died from drinking water contaminated with Cyanobacteria?
Avatar for SedonaDebbie
Feb 11, 2024 3:57 PM CST
Name: Debbie
Sedona Arizona (Zone 8b)
Stone brings up a lot of good points. And those points are mostly what I remembered about the controversy back in the day. First it was GMO 'Round-up ready' wheat so the creators could then spray the grains with buckets of herbicides. And then, even worse was using gene therapy on corn which is wind pollinated and far more detrimental because it could easily spread to unintended crops such as my crops! I am also 99% organic and I don't want those nasty chemicals in my yard or in my food.

But like all things these modern technologies can be used for good or for 'evil' not so good purposes. Like AI. I listen to a lot of science podcasts. AI is now being used to find new cures for cancers and diseases. They say they can find new cures in months or years now instead of in decades thanks to AI. That's a good thing. But it is also being used to create deep fakes in video and audio transmissions. One outcome can cure the world of terrible diseases and one outcome could cause devastating effects to our societies.

My grandmother used to say... "You can't throw the baby out with the bathwater". It looks like GMO's and AI are here to stay whether we like it or not. I am glad they are now using it for things other than contaminating our foods with more nasty chemicals.

I still prefer to grow heirlooms organically. Now that I'm getting older I'm far more cautious about everything and much more set in my ways. But I hope there's still a little bit of that youth left in me that was excited to try new things like a microwave, silly putty and culottes.

And now they're learning to grow food in the dark. https://geneticliteracyproject...
I think I'll dig out my old culottes and see if they still fit... Happy gardening.
Image
Feb 18, 2024 1:27 AM CST
Name: Pat
Columbus, Ohio (Zone 6a)
Annuals Seed Starter Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers Garden Art Daylilies
Garden Photography Butterflies Bookworm Plant and/or Seed Trader Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
This is a controversial subject of course. I attended a symposium sponsored by the OEFFA* here in Ohio on the subject of GMOs. There were actually pro and con presentations made.

My takeaway was to find myself more convinced by the scientists who have actually done some of this work and said that they currently cannot tell what the overall impact on the genome of the altered plants is.

As a plant physiologist with some knowledge of genetics, I know that each plant has a limited capacity for producing photosynthetic products. If precursors are diverted into the pathway to (unnaturally) produce anthocyanins, what other pathway was deprived of its precursors? Anthocyanins are chemically complex. They are soluble because they are highly glycosylated (have many sugar molecules attached). Does that reduce the sweetness of the tomato?

I found a report about the transgenic purple tomatoes compared to normal red. They were actually able to "silence" the transgene(s) in various sectors of individual fruits! Then they compared gene expression in them:

"Two hundred and forty one genes showed significant differences in expression between purple and red sectors over at least two stages (Figure S3A). Functional annotation revealed that many of these genes are involved in primary and secondary metabolism, cell wall modification, oxidative stress, and pathogen resistance."

It appears that at the time they did not know what the 240 genes affected were, exactly.

Various other articles on this subject suggest that production of the naturally occurring anthocyanins in wild tomatoes such as the ones used in breeding'Indigo Rose' could have been stimulated instead of introducing genes from Antirrhinum. My suspicion is that the reason for doing this is so that it could be patented. There are some other economic considerations though such as shelf life which could have been an impetus except I don't think it was found until after the fact:

There is a difference in the expression of the snapdragon anthocyanins - they're produced in the flesh not just the skin as in the wild ones.

One result of this is that the fruits have been found to be much more resistant to decay. So they might be able to sit on the store counter for 50 days instead of 20-30 before they rot. Woohoo? I'm ambivalent.

Ultimately I think ppl will decide whether to eat them or not based on taste and price. There is no nutritional need to eat them because anthocyanins are naturally plentiful in many "blue" and purple fruits and to a lesser extent in vegetables. Red cabbage has anthocyanins, for example.

As to other kinds of transgenic plants- some have caused ecological damage beyond the reduction of diversity mentioned by Jill @critterologist. A plant called horse weed rapidly developed resistance to RoundUp so completely that it overwhelmed RU-resistant soybean fields.

Next step: GE Soybeans were then "stacked" with the addition of resistance to dicamba, a broadleaf herbicide that (so far) kills horse weed.

This was a highly controversial decision by regulators who permitted it. Dicamba is highly volatile. It easily drifts offsite even in low winds. Manufacturers claimed limits would be placed on its application to prevent that. So, it isn't legal to apply it when it is even slightly windy. The reality is that farmers are growing soybeans in huge fields. They can't spray only during calm days. The result has been dicamba damage to forests, natural areas, and landscapes everywhere soybeans are grown.

When the soybeans across the road from us are sprayed, the leaves on our ginkgo tree are pale and only reach 1/2" across. Development of later flushes is delayed. Growth of the entire tree has been nearly halted. Fortunately it hasn't died. Some of our herbaceous ornamentals have. Redbuds are similarly stunted. Ash and oak are affected depending on how much spray hits them.

Then there's the issue of pollen drift on wind pollinated crops like corn and canola. Organic farmers in Canada were actually sued by manufacturers because GE plants were found in their fields. Did the farmers want them? Not at all! Their organic certification was ruined by unwanted genetic contamination.

So I won't knowingly eat any genetically engineered plants because of the unpredictable consequences, in so many different ways.

Pat

*Ohio Ecological Food and Farm Association
Edited to correct a misspelled word.
Knowledge isn’t free. You have to pay attention.
- Richard P. Feynman
Last edited by Hortaholic Feb 18, 2024 9:38 AM Icon for preview
Image
Feb 18, 2024 9:14 AM CST
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River Twp, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Bee Lover Butterflies Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Greenhouse Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Enjoys or suffers cold winters
Thank you for that excellent post, Pat! Thumbs up
“Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight." ~ Albert Schweitzer
C/F temp conversion
Image
Feb 18, 2024 10:03 AM CST
Name: Sally
central Maryland (Zone 7b)
See you in the funny papers!
Charter ATP Member Frogs and Toads Houseplants Keeper of Poultry Vegetable Grower Region: Maryland
Composter Native Plants and Wildflowers Organic Gardener Region: United States of America Cat Lover Birds
Weedwhacker said: Thank you for that excellent post, Pat! Thumbs up

I agree
Plant it and they will come.
Image
Feb 18, 2024 12:18 PM CST
Name: Critter (Jill)
Frederick, MD (Zone 6b)
Charter ATP Member Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Critters Allowed Butterflies Hummingbirder Cat Lover
Bee Lover Region: Mid-Atlantic Cottage Gardener Garden Photography Tropicals Hibiscus
Yes, thank you! Lots of interesting information there. I'd forgotten about the horseweed issue. I'm really sorry your trees are impacted by dicamba spraying. You're right, the farmer's can't afford to wait for totally calm days to spray (and won't).

Interesting that the purple-fleshed tomatoes with the snapdragon gene have double the shelf life of a regular tomato! That doesn't flip my trigger since I generally wait for summer and fresh tomatoes rather than eating store-bought, but in some markets it could make a real impact.
We're all learners, doers, teachers.
Image
Feb 18, 2024 7:18 PM CST
Name: Pat
Columbus, Ohio (Zone 6a)
Annuals Seed Starter Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers Garden Art Daylilies
Garden Photography Butterflies Bookworm Plant and/or Seed Trader Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Thanks for the compliments, very much appreciated. ☺️

Just to clarify a possible misunderstanding on my part, there may have only been one actual suit carried out by Monsanto and it was against a Canadian canola farmer who intentionally collected seeds from volunteer GE seeds to plant. I do think that is wrong.
https://geneticliteracyproject...

That said- this article was written by a person working in the GE industry and only addresses the question of Monsanto's legal actions on canola. It doesn't address some other issues such as damage to conventional canola by drift, or contamination of organic canola.

It also does not address the many other problems caused by the cultivation of GE organisms. There are some benefits, yes. The questions concern the overall balance of pros and cons and the long term unexpected side effects.

There is a tendency to rush into new technologies when perhaps the only major benefit that's actually proven is to the bottom line of the seed producers. And we know who's pushing hardest for rapid adoption.

Pat
Knowledge isn’t free. You have to pay attention.
- Richard P. Feynman
Last edited by Hortaholic Feb 18, 2024 7:20 PM Icon for preview
Image
Feb 18, 2024 7:43 PM CST
Name: Arlene
Beachside Daytona (Zone 9a)
Two years ago I purchased a tomato plant from Lowe's that was introduced by Univ. of FL. It grew
quite well initially, but I did research and found that the tomato was GMO. I immediately dumped it and planted something else.

Since then I've been doing tomatoes from seed. This year I tried Sweet Million cherry tomato. It is amazing. Pop one in your mouth and it explodes with the taste of big tomatoes. Anyone who tries it in my garden asks for a plant.

You must first create a username and login before you can reply to this thread.
  • Started by: kenisaac
  • Replies: 226, views: 3,922
Member Login:

( No account? Join now! )

Today's site banner is by Newyorkrita and is called "Rose Francois Rabelais"

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.