@annC don't feel bad about not mulching. I mulched my front beds when the plants were installed in 2007 and haven't re-mulched since. Maybe this Autumn I will get around to it.

Steady as she goes, Ann.

Sent you a few acorns so you can pick out an ATP badge, if you'd like. If not, you can use them in one of the Not-A-Raffle raffles. (There's one shown on your homepage every month.)

I purchased grass-be-gone also but it did not work on my St. Augustine grass. If I get desperate I will use a sponge or paint brush and dab RU on the weeds or grass that is imposing. If you use vinegar or round-up you cannot risk the spray being carried by the wind, also you do not want any to go into the soil so the paint brush is a good way to kill one plant and leave the neighbors untouched. Even a small drift will ruin the daylilies (deform) or kill them.

Ann, (sending you a few acorns)

If you have to use a spray what I have done before is staple or tape a large piece of cardboard to a long stick and use it as a shield behind the plant you want to spray. Now that won't work if you have a lot of plants close together but it does help with drift. I personally won't use Round Up anymore after reading all the reports, but that's my own personal thing.

Yes, that is a good idea but I still get nervous because I have read the reports also. I recently found out that Vinegar is a good substitute but I need to learn how to mix it, some people use full strength white vinegar and do not mix it at all.
This is what I did with my daylilies out front and a new project for the back.


http://www.agardenforthehouse....

What reports?

That would be opening a can of worms, I don't want to get off topic. Maybe we could start a new topic about round-up? I will email you a couple of links.

All chemicals need to be used responsibly.

Round Up and vinegar are no different in this respect.

Is Vinegar a chemical too??

abhege said:If you have to use a spray what I have done before is staple or tape a large piece of cardboard to a long stick and use it as a shield behind the plant you want to spray. Now that won't work if you have a lot of plants close together but it does help with drift. I personally won't use Round Up anymore after reading all the reports, but that's my own personal thing.

I have used tin cans with the top and bottom removed. Just place it over the weeds and spray inside the can.

virginiarose said:Is Vinegar a chemical too??

I believe you are thinking of the term "chemicals" as meaning pesticides. A narrow view, in my opinion, but even so, yes, vinegar can be a pesticide. Applied properly, it will kill vegetation.

Just because something is natural, or seems natural, doesn't mean you can be any more or less careful with it's use. Battery acid (sulfuric acid) is a natural chemical. Does this make it any less harmful? Absolutely not! It will still eat your skin, wood, clothes, car finish, etc.
On the flip side, the pool chemical that is usually labeled "pH Up" is baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) and is relatively benign.


We need to break this paradigm of natural chemicals versus processed or manufactured chemicals. ALL need to be used responsibly.

Rick, you are so right!!!

..Sorry I had a narrow view.

Susan, no worries!

A non-chemical control for thistle (mentioned in the original post) is to simply cut it off at ground level and continue to cut it off as it tries to grow back. It must set seed and if you don't allow it to do so, it will eventually die off. This is how we addressed a huge population of Canadian thistle in our front field (frequent mowing). Thistle seed, however, remains viable for a couple years so this is a lengthy process. Seems it would work OK in a flower bed though, and you then don't have to worry about the effects of either a commercial pesticide or vinegar on your daylilies. And once the thistle is truly dead, the roots would decompose for added organics.

Bonehead said:A non-chemical control for thistle (mentioned in the original post) is to simply cut it off at ground level and continue to cut it off as it tries to grow back. It must set seed and if you don't allow it to do so, it will eventually die off. This is how we addressed a huge population of Canadian thistle in our front field (frequent mowing). Thistle seed, however, remains viable for a couple years so this is a lengthy process. Seems it would work OK in a flower bed though, and you then don't have to worry about the effects of either a commercial pesticide or vinegar on your daylilies. And once the thistle is truly dead, the roots would decompose for added organics.

Regular mowing works on thistles... yes!

However, this is so tough to do in a flowerbed. I've been pinching off thistle top-growth in two of my beds for multiple years now, to no avail so far.

It seems to me like even the most minute bit of top-growth allowed to see sunlight guarantees that these plants will be able to store sufficient energy in their roots to ensure survival.
If one could be out in the beds clipping them back after every single rainfall or watering session it might be more effective, but continuously walking on wet soil would only compound the problem, I think.

I've started adding stepping stones to those beds so that I can get after them more often...hoping and praying that I'll get them out of there someday.

[These are two of the beds that I previously wasted lots of time and energy on...dug out plants, dug out thistles, amended soil and replaced clean plants... I'm not ever going that route again! ]

Chelle, I also neglected to keep in mind that the flower bed would be getting much better attention than a hayfield - likely regular fertilizing, adequate watering, good sun exposure, etc. That would also only make the thistles more robust. We only mowed our thistle-thick fields maybe twice per season, mainly trying to NOT allow the thistles to set seed to break the cycle that way. When I encounter a thistle in my flower beds (now a rarity thank goodness) I try to dig out the entire plant, including all roots. That seemed to be a bit overwhelming in Ann's case, so was trying for an alternate method that didn't include herbicides or chemicals. It may well come down to old fashioned hand-weeding - and that can be nasty with the thistle thorns!

Ann, if that is the route you must take, try to break your job down to smallish 3 square foot sections and tackle one at a time, mulching heavily once you have that section cleaned out. I get a good deal of instant gratification when I can visually see progress, and am rejuvenated once I have exceeded the half way mark.

Good luck, and do post pictures as you go so we can cheer you on!

>> I've started adding stepping stones to those beds

I'm still thinking about doing that but haven't started yet.

Do you worry about compaction right under the stepping stone?

I was thinking that I might have to bury cinder blocks resting on hard clay sub-soil to "take the weight" but provide through-routes for water, worms and roots.

Maybe that would be waste of effort since, I suppose, water, worms and roots can just go around the stepping-stone-zone.