Gerry - Go for it! If you live to be 92, then you still have almost 30 more years to do some serious hybridizing!

Michele - I live in Florida, too. Does it only take 1-2 years for most blooms to stabilize here in Florida? Or is 3 years the true test? I am thinking of Fred's "LILLIAN'S DONNA ANN MANNING". It sure changed each year. And the yellow really came out in the 3rd year along with a smaller eye. (I really like the larger eye on some cultivars. Something "new" to me...) And that yellow streaking in your "ugly, discarded" daylily actually fascinated me. I, personally, would probably grow it out another year or even two just to see what happens to that streaking in the petals. Too me it looked kinda cool! (I guess there is no accounting for taste, as it didn't look ugly to me. LOL!)

I am sitting here thinking that probably ALL of my home-grown hybrid daylilies would be tossed by most hybridizer's standards! I don't have a named and registered daylily in the bunch and I don't know if any would even be worthy of naming and registering. I probably have about 150 currently growing. Some will die off as I always lose some every year that were 1 year or 2 year old plants. But the rest do well here in my raised beds. I am curious to see how many survive in the new front border. I have about 80 recently planted there. I've often wondered if some of the ones that I lose ... died for the same reasons you mentioned, particularly that they were crowded out and failed to thrive due to that issue. The seedlings are often crowded together. Some seem to grow faster than others. I don't watch over them that closely. When you have so many growing, I figure that the strong will survive and any that don't ... weren't meant to be! They have to be tough to survive in Florida with all the pests, diseases, and often drought conditions.

It bothers me that whenever I see daylilies for sale locally, that they are always plain yellow no-name daylilies. I don't get that! Always yellow. They do grow well here, but why only yellow? I've never understood that.

Fred - Thank you for posting your cultivar photos to show the blooms each year as your keeper daylilies changed before finally stabilizing. So fascinating to see those photos! For you to be tossing so many, you must have particular qualities and characteristics that you are striving for.

All this is making me take a closer look at my own daylilies as well as others. Before all of this information, a daylily was a daylily ... all with similar traits. Now I see more of the differences. I think I just graduated to the next level of growing daylilies. (Still a kindergardener or 1st grader, though!) I like them all ... the good and the bad. Which is why I keep them all and just add more around my yard.

Tina - I think the reason they bloom so quickly here in Florida is because they continue to grow through the Winter months. We rarely get hard freezes. Though I don't believe I get many first year blooming plants. But that could be because I started the seeds in January or later, instead of the Fall. I am growing some now and some I started a month ago. So I am really curious to see if any of these bloom in 2014.

I do have some dormants growing in my garden as well. But I haven't kept a close eye on any of mine to see how quickly they bloom. I plan to start though with the current "named" parent crosses I am currently growing from seeds.

I may find myself culling some of my current in-ground plants. I have family members that would take them and I may plant some at the school I work at, too. But I have some favorites and they will stay. Two of my favorite hybrids came from Sandy and the pod parents were Mama's Cherry Pie and Roses in the Snow. I love both of those and they have done quite well in my garden and bloom like crazy. There are a few others as well.

Because I garden for butterflies and hummingbirds, I am trying to be an organic, pesticide-free gardener.

I really want to know more about the rust issue. Are there really cultivars that are resistant to rust??? I do have the rust issue with some of my plants.

chalyse said:

... and ... how do you get a bloom in seven months? Can you walk us through the life cycle of that seedling from sprout to bloom (rate of growth, care and feeding, amount of sun, temps, etc)? - I'm still waiting on a bloom from seeds planted in 2011, and we have 9 months of growing season ... and even if I started stored seed from the previous year during early spring I would miss getting blooms on all the EE, E, and EM's at the very least (too young at that point in the growing season...).

I took what Fred (spunky1) told me he does and basically do it the same. We set pods up until I think it's June 1st or maybe July 1st ( Fred's oldness is rubbing off on me ) and then wait for them to ripen. They take anywhere from 30-60 days to ripen so we set a cutoff date for this to happen so the seeds will be planted no later than Aug 1st. You can plant them any way you like but we plant them in the 72 hole seed trays. This is my setup




Then after about 6 weeks the seedlings will be transplanted into the beds, they need to be planted no later than Sept 15th for first year blooms

need to be transplanted



here is some photos of the growth of them in 2011/2012

Nov 30, 2011 I got them transplanted late due to moving the garden


February 19, 2012



March 4 and March 17, 2012 It's starting to warm up so faster growth in just a couple of weeks



March 4 and March 17




April 3, 2012



This is this past season. I did them different by planting in pots instead of ground

Jan- Feb- March


Jan- Feb- March




So we take the seed and plant no later than Aug 1st. I usually just plant straight from the pod but if I need to wait I will stick them in the fridge. Transplant at 6 weeks no later than Sept 15th and then let them grow. We do the same thing to the seedlings as we do the named cultivars as far as alfalfa, slow release, etc., the only thing we do differenct is fertilize with water soluble fertilizer weekly instead of every two weeks. We will start seeing blooms on some in March and more in April with a lot more in May. So that puts the early ones at about 7 months old. They are not in full sun when they are in the seed trays so they won't have to be watered several times a day but they are put in the sun to harden off before transplanting then they will be in full sun after that. We usually have mild winters 30s and 40s for the lows with some freezes thrown in and the highs can be 70s and 80s sometimes with it usually in the 60s and 70s so pretty much year round growing. The most growth throughout the winter/early spring is in March when the nights start warming up.


I hope this answers some questions.

beckygardener said:
Michele - I live in Florida, too. Does it only take 1-2 years for most blooms to stabilize here in Florida? Or is 3 years the true test? I am thinking of Fred's "LILLIAN'S DONNA ANN MANNING". It sure changed each year. And the yellow really came out in the 3rd year along with a smaller eye.

It really just depends on the plant. I would say most are what they are going to be after 2 years, but you just never no. There is no set rule on what they want to do.


"I am sitting here thinking that probably ALL of my home-grown hybrid daylilies would be tossed by most hybridizer's standards! I don't have a named and registered daylily in the bunch and I don't know if any would even be worthy of naming and registering"

If you are hybridizing for you then that is what matters, not comparing it with all the other hybridizers. You need to figure out what it is you want out of them not what you think others want and what you think is worthy to name and register. What I see as ugly I have had people come to the garden and just ooooh and awwww over. I look at it and wonder what they see; beauty is in the eye of the beholder. James Hall will ask me "isn't that beautiful?" and I will tell him straight up "NO" if I don't like it. If everyone liked the same thing then daylilies would be pretty boring and all look alike. It's because people like those "flaws" and take them further and make them into something great.

MICHELE! I hope you might adapt that amazing, wonderful, exquisite post for posting to the Articles area of ATP! Awesome!

Basically we do stop making seed on June 1st Old Woman, but I sometimes will make a few late seed if something I want to use is blooming late. The examples I posted are not the norm, most changes to the bloom will be small, what I really look for in a two and three year old seedling is a decent scape, I already have a nice bloom, so I want to see a lot of blooms on a well branched scape and of course it must continue to rebloom.

So, could you might also see changes in the scaping or blooming habit (less or more branches, stronger or weaker scapes, or many more or less blooms) over the first few years?

chalyse said:So, could you might also see changes in the scaping or blooming habit (less or more branches, stronger or weaker scapes, or many more or less blooms) over the first few years?

Yes, hopefully you see more branching, stronger scapes, and more blooms but the opposite does happen.

Gerry, I will be looking for photos here on ATP when your seedlings start blooming.

Michele - I started laughing when I saw all your photos with all the planted and potted up daylily seedlings! (Not laughing because it was funny, but because I was just in awe!) I can NOT imagine planting THAT many ... especially in their own individual pots! You are amazing!!! That is determination and dedication!!! You and Fred just blow me away!

Most of my daylilies don't start blooming until May and most continue to bloom through July. My daylily bloom time seems to be a month later than yours! So Sept 15 is the deadline for you to get first year blooms. Would mine be Oct 15? I need to keep better records starting this coming year.

I also need to start fertilizing my seedlings every week with MiracleGro. Do you use MiracleGro? If so, which one do you use for the daylily seedlings? Thank you for so much great information! Very, very helpful!!!! Gives me a lot to think about!

I have another question ... what kind of tags do you use for your seedlings? Or do you use mapping them out on paper or your computer?

Becky- I guess zones aren't what most people think of them. I would assume that since you are in zone 9b that you would actually start blooming before me; shows what I know

It took forever to transplant those in the individual pots but it has it's pros and cons just like planting in the ground does. We did it this way since we were lacking space to actually plant them in the ground. If I were to plant them in the same space I would have only did 3 or 4 to a row were as with the pots I got 6 or 7 to a row plus we figured it would be easier to just pick up a pot if we decided to keep or compost one than to mark them and dig later. But like I said it has it's pros and cons just the same. I do think the pots were too small for the growth they do though. These were the size smaller than one gallons and they really needed at least 1 gallon pots.

I would think that if you are a month behind us then yes you could plant the 6 week old seedlings 1 month later. If you actually plant them in larger/deeper hole seed trays (I believe they are called tree trays- 5" deep) or in plastic solo cups or the likes you could leave them in longer and plant later as they would have more room to grow and the roots really wouldn't be disturbed when transplanting. I actually had some seedlings bloom that the seeds weren't planted until Oct. My granddaughter found a late seed pod and just had to plant them; it bloomed in mid June.

If you enlarge photo you can see the little seedlings

My granddaughter Raven with her seedlings





Yes we do use Miracle-Gro or something similar. The Miracle-Gro we use is the all-purpose water soluble and the ratio is 24-8-16. We also have used the big 25lb or it may be 50lb bags of the water soluble in whatever ratio is close to a 3-1-2 or 4-1-2 ratio so like 15-5-10 or anything close. We also alternate it with Daniels Plant Food which is now called Nature's Source plant food (not sure when the packaging will be changed over) http://www.naturessourceplantf...

beckygardener said:

I have another question ... what kind of tags do you use for your seedlings? Or do you use mapping them out on paper or your computer?

We just use cut up mini-blinds to write the crosses on or a seedling number and usually the first one in the row I put a metal plant marker with the cross on it. Fred uses PVC pipe as the beginning marker with the mini-blind tucked into the end so he won't have to hunt for the tags in the ground. If he reads this maybe he will post a photo of it. The only paper tracking I keep is the seedling number with the cross written down. I do not map anything here since it changes every year.

what a gorgeous child! i have ALWAYS wanted hair that color.

lovemyhouse said:what a gorgeous child! i have ALWAYS wanted hair that color.

she gets her hair from her mother.

I think Becky would still have to get her seedling in the ground by Sept 15 to see most of her seedlings bloom the first year, I do not think her weather is that much different than ours. I know down around Ocala it gets colder than this area at times. Jeff Salter said the weather in Gainesville is a lot colder then Eustis. I think the Sept 15th deadline came from one of the big guys in Florida(not sure about this) but I know no one in this area that could have told me. I have some seedlings planted Oct 3rd this year and it will be interesting to see how many bloom next year if any.

I also use no map, but when I add a registered flower to my inventory I do note which area it's located.
This is baby seedlings Nov last year, each pipe has a number written on a mini blind which represents the cross. When the daylilies are mature I have no trouble finding the cross because it's 18 inch's above the ground.

I do the same with the registered markers.

Michele - Raven (adorable) looks like your little gardening buddy and maybe even future hybridizer!!! My oldest (3 1/2 yrs old) granddaughter was over on Thanksgiving Day and she kept wanting to go out into the backyard. She loves being outside at my house. And she wanted to dig in the dirt. (Which is funny because she is otherwise very much the little clean princess!), but her and I turned dirt in an area I've been piling removed dirt. She loved it and I thought it was funny! But that's how it begins ....

I also use cut-up blinds as tags. Cheap and durable!

So let me have you clarify something for me, please ...?

You collect/harvest seeds no later than June 1st? I know you do not chill any of those seeds as I've read that in one of your previous posts. Do you then dry them out and then plant or do you plant the seeds right away after removing them from the pods? You start them in the seed trays. And then move them at 6 weeks old into the ground or a pot? Or am I getting confused?

I grow mine in rows in small plastic shoe bins (with holes burned in the bottoms for drainage). I then transplant to styrofoam cups. 12 oz. cups. And then into another outdoor rectangular container where they grow until Fall. But I know they are not getting enough root room, so that is likely my dilemma. I need them to grow in something much larger or individual pots like you do.

What do you use to mark the pods? I have seen some tags hanging from some pods, but I don't know what those tags are?

Fred - I was just getting ready for work and saw your post and read it! Amazing!!! I will look more closely at your photos after work today! Thank you for sharing your growing method with us! You and Michele really have it down to a science!!!

Tink, I keep detailed records of when my plants bloom. ... it keeps me busy. If Becky is 9b, then I'm 9a irregardless of what that updated map says!

Here's what happened in my garden this year--

First bloom was on Wingbeats on 3/24/13 and Barcode was the second to bloom on 3/26.

By April 15, 26 plants had their first blooms and that is 36% of my daylilies (73 named cultivars).

The last bloom in the garden was on Laughing Feather on 10/13

My husband just says--look at all the hard work you do! My response is that I work hard because I expect A LOT out of my garden and it seems to be working! At least that's what I tell myself.

Michele, your GD is beautiful! She obviously get her looks from you.
Most of the big northern hybridizers have greenhouses. Mike Grossmann, Jamie Gossard, Carol Emmerich to name a few. That some what even the playing field. Mike keep his at 35°f during the cold MN winters. I imagine you could go warmer but the cost could be astronomical. Solar energy anyone?? I started mine indoors around late February to mid March and had some blooms the next year.
Becky, I agree with Michele in regards to registering a daylily for a family member or friend. If you are pleased with it in your garden then go for it.
I have read of hybridizers that had ten to fifteen thousand seedlings. Somehow the name "Apps" is ringing in my ear.