Daylilies forum: Important Request Are These Daylily Seeds?

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Name: Brian
Ontario Canada (Zone 5b)
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bearsearch
Jan 6, 2014 9:26 PM CST
Hi All! I recently received these from the Lily auction and I'm not even sure they are daylily seeds. If they are I don't think they are viable as I have NEVER seen very hard white/beige DL seeds before. I would really really appreciate feedback on what people especially those with lots of breeding experience think of these. Thanks! They aren't the best of photos but are the best I could come up with in short time. The cross is supposed to be "Sharon's Delight X WB. Cottonmouth"
Thumb of 2014-01-07/bearsearch/f0e9f5 Thumb of 2014-01-07/bearsearch/d83225 Thumb of 2014-01-07/bearsearch/d63ad4

Thumb of 2014-01-07/bearsearch/c6eb0a Thumb of 2014-01-07/bearsearch/62627f Thumb of 2014-01-07/bearsearch/bf17eb
Edited for spelling 11/1/14
Thumb of 2014-01-07/bearsearch/2887a0

[Last edited by bearsearch - Jan 11, 2014 8:52 AM (+)]
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Name: Tina
Where the desert meets the sea (Zone 9b)
Daylilies Cactus and Succulents Container Gardener Dog Lover Birds Enjoys or suffers hot summers
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chalyse
Jan 6, 2014 11:03 PM CST
I'd say definitely no, though I'm no expert (just answering till others can chime in). They actually look like some kind of corn seed to me. Anyone else?

EDIT: But, see below ... we discovered some interesting things and they may indeed be "peeled" daylily seeds!
Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of old; seek what those of old sought. — Basho

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[Last edited by chalyse - Jan 7, 2014 7:05 AM (+)]
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Name: Natalie
North Central Idaho (Zone 7a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Frogs and Toads Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers
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Natalie
Jan 6, 2014 11:05 PM CST
Hi Brian, Those don't look anything like daylily seeds to me. I've never seen any that aren't black, but even then, they don't look like these. Hopefully someone else will know if they are actual daylily seeds. From what I understand, if they aren't black, they aren't viable. But, to me, they don't even look like the correct type of seed.
Natalie
Name: Kim W
Md (Zone 6a)
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kimkats
Jan 6, 2014 11:09 PM CST
do not look like any daylily seed I've ever encountered.
It's my cats world, I'm just here to open the cans.
Name: Margaret
Near Kamloops, BC, Canada (Zone 3a)
Region: Canadian Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Tip Photographer Garden Ideas: Master Level I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member
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mcash70
Jan 6, 2014 11:40 PM CST
They look like peeled daylily seeds. Blinking I once peeled a seed that wouldn't germinate as I had remembered reading about peeling daylily seeds somewhere, it grew, was doing great outside, chipmunk dug it up to hide it's seeds in the pot and killed it, I was so mad at that chipmunk!!!! Grumbling Hilarious! I tried to find a photo I took of it but I guess I deleted it. Shrug!
Name: Tina
Where the desert meets the sea (Zone 9b)
Daylilies Cactus and Succulents Container Gardener Dog Lover Birds Enjoys or suffers hot summers
Garden Ideas: Level 2
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chalyse
Jan 7, 2014 5:50 AM CST
Interesting information, Margaret! I peeked at google and found an archived AHS link to a report about peeled and unpeeled daylily seeds from experiments at DePaul University in 1954. It seems they were trying to determine if the seed coat was preventing needed oxygen from reaching the embryo during or after the cold-stratification process. Though they stated that peeling the coat had "no stimulatory effect" on germination, and that the necessary level of oxygen diffused through the "relatively impermeable enveloping structures," their table seems to show that control-group seeds (unpeeled) germinated at a rate of 48 percent versus 72-76 percent for the peeled seeds.

See Page 89:
http://www.daylilies.org/AHSarchives/Griesbach_1956.pdf

So, this prompted me to take a seed from fridge storage, "peel" it as best I could, and try to photograph it. It is rather more round than Brian's seeds, but I suppose it is possible his could just be flatter daylily seeds to begin with, as I have seen some of those in my own harvests. I did notice a nodule at the "end" of the seeds, like Brian's above. Perhaps this prompts another experiment to see how such seeds germinate and grow, and maybe Brian will verify with the seller that peeled-seeds are the usual way they handle and sell daylily seeds? Would be interesting to see if someone has pictures of peeled daylily seeds that closely match up with Brian's.

My cold-stratified seed after "peeling" some of its outer coat:

Thumb of 2014-01-07/chalyse/acd254

Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of old; seek what those of old sought. — Basho

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[Last edited by chalyse - Jan 7, 2014 10:47 AM (+)]
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Name: Michele
Cantonment, FL zone 8b
Seller of Garden Stuff Region: United States of America Pollen collector Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Florida
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tink3472
Jan 7, 2014 6:02 AM CST
I just unpeeled 2 daylily seeds to see what they look like and they look like those.

These aren't great photos because I took them with my phone but you can see pretty well what they look like

Thumb of 2014-01-07/tink3472/02c139
Thumb of 2014-01-07/tink3472/20dfa6

I would ask the seller about this as this is not the norm (as I'm sure you know) way to sell daylily seeds. It also should have been stated in the auction that they were peeled.
[url=www.pensacoladaylilyclub.com]www.pensacoladaylilyclub.com[/url]
Name: Tina
Where the desert meets the sea (Zone 9b)
Daylilies Cactus and Succulents Container Gardener Dog Lover Birds Enjoys or suffers hot summers
Garden Ideas: Level 2
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chalyse
Jan 7, 2014 6:20 AM CST
I agree with Michele that a seller would/should mention if they are peeled. But, here is an even more intriguing AHS archive link (same researchers) that does seem to more strongly state that peeling of at least the "invisible membrane" that encloses the embryo tip just under the seed coat greatly increases the percentage of seed germinations (circa 1950s -- who knows if that has been formally confirmed...). I suppose if someone hybridized particularly expensive or hard-to-propogate cultivars and hoped to maximize germination it might be worth peeling each seed, but the peeling process seems pretty onerous. I hope you might ask the seller how they did it, Brian! Maybe there is an easy way to skin a DL seed?

See page 27:
http://www.daylilies.org/AHSarchives/Griesbach_1955.pdf
Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of old; seek what those of old sought. — Basho

Daylilies that thrive? click here! Thumbs up
[Last edited by chalyse - Jan 7, 2014 6:51 AM (+)]
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Name: Michele
Cantonment, FL zone 8b
Seller of Garden Stuff Region: United States of America Pollen collector Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Florida
Birds Butterflies Container Gardener Hummingbirder Garden Ideas: Level 2 Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle
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tink3472
Jan 7, 2014 6:42 AM CST
chalyse said:-- but the peeling process seems pretty onerous. I hope you might ask the seller how they did it, Brian! Maybe there is an easy way?


If the seeds have been dried for awhile then the black shells just crumbled away when rolled in you fingers. The 2 I did this morning I did in a few seconds
[url=www.pensacoladaylilyclub.com]www.pensacoladaylilyclub.com[/url]
Name: Tina
Where the desert meets the sea (Zone 9b)
Daylilies Cactus and Succulents Container Gardener Dog Lover Birds Enjoys or suffers hot summers
Garden Ideas: Level 2
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chalyse
Jan 7, 2014 6:54 AM CST
Awesome - it is nice to have something new to try if a highly desired cross results in healthy looking seeds that just don't seem to sprout. *puts little oxygen masks on each seed ...* Rolling my eyes.
Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of old; seek what those of old sought. — Basho

Daylilies that thrive? click here! Thumbs up
Name: Cynthia (Cindy)
Melvindale, Mi (Zone 5b)
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Hemlady
Jan 7, 2014 7:23 AM CST
The cultivar Moonlight Orchid produces white daylily seeds. I was told by some folks on here that they are not viable. This is what they looked like,
Thumb of 2014-01-07/Hemlady/6b8545

Lighthouse Gardens
springfield MO area (Zone 6a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Identifier
Frillylily
Jan 7, 2014 7:30 AM CST
What makes them unviable? All the seeds I have seen have been black.

Corn seeds btw look like kernels of corn or course and the ones I've seen are about twice the size of a dl seed. They are also quite hard. Popcorn seed is smaller and rounder like the ones pictured, but anyway, I am rambling, they do not appear to be corn to me.

Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Jan 7, 2014 9:07 AM CST
I had a seedling a few years ago that produced white seeds. I planted them and they sprouted normally. When daylily seeds are immature they are white and then they might not be viable. If white seeds are from a pollinated flower and the pod developed normally (for the usual length of time) then white (non-black) more or less normal-sized firm seeds are probably viable. I have a few seedlings still potted and growing from the white seeds. Unfortunately I potted the pod parent and it died that winter so all I have are those few seedlings. They will most likely produce normal coloured seeds and I will have to sib-cross them together to see if white seeds is a mutation.
Maurice
Name: Cynthia (Cindy)
Melvindale, Mi (Zone 5b)
Hybridizer Irises Butterflies Charter ATP Member Birds Cat Lover
Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Vegetable Grower Daylilies Hummingbirder Heucheras
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Hemlady
Jan 7, 2014 10:09 AM CST
Every pod on Moonlight Orchid produced white seeds for me. I was told by a couple of hybridizers on here that the seeds probably were not viable. Darn, I think I threw them out, now I can't try growing them.
Lighthouse Gardens
Name: Margaret
Near Kamloops, BC, Canada (Zone 3a)
Region: Canadian Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Tip Photographer Garden Ideas: Master Level I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member
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mcash70
Jan 7, 2014 10:14 AM CST
That's too bad Cindy, you may have gotten some interesting seedlings, live and learn I guess.
Name: Mike
Hazel Crest, IL (Zone 5b)
There's a place of quiet rest !
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Hazelcrestmikeb
Jan 7, 2014 10:18 AM CST
Hemlady, MO is a fav in my yard. Peeling seeds seem like a lot of work to me.
Thumb of 2014-01-07/Hazelcrestmikeb/fbc34d Moonlight Orchid

robinseeds.com
Name: Margaret
Near Kamloops, BC, Canada (Zone 3a)
Region: Canadian Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Tip Photographer Garden Ideas: Master Level I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member
Morning Glories Critters Allowed Birds Houseplants Butterflies Garden Photography
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mcash70
Jan 7, 2014 10:35 AM CST
Mike, that is a pretty one! Thumbs up
springfield MO area (Zone 6a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Identifier
Frillylily
Jan 7, 2014 10:53 AM CST

Thumb of 2014-01-07/Frillylily/d7a012

springfield MO area (Zone 6a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Identifier
Frillylily
Jan 7, 2014 10:59 AM CST
MO is tall and it has flimsy scapes, The spideryish form breaks easily if you have winds. It is a nice one to pick early in the morning and bring indoors or display on the patio table.
Name: Margaret
Near Kamloops, BC, Canada (Zone 3a)
Region: Canadian Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Tip Photographer Garden Ideas: Master Level I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member
Morning Glories Critters Allowed Birds Houseplants Butterflies Garden Photography
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mcash70
Jan 7, 2014 11:54 AM CST
Frilly, yours sure is a different color, pretty too!

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