I think a virus is doubtful, also.

Good!
I was under the impression that color breaking was almost always a virus.

fellow lily-lovers, it's been a great learning experience to peruse all the sub forums but now I have to participate! Attached is a pic of a flower off of one of my Anastasia stalks that I took this Summer. It seemed odd and now after reading all the posts in this sub forum I'm concerned it has a virus. The plant itself is very vigorous and shows no signs of decline and I just rearranged the bulbs (now quite large). Should I be concerned? Just dig them up and toss? The flowers were huge and substantial so am hoping that it's something else. Thanks for your help.

Welcome John.

I hope someone here can help you. I'd be worried too, if it were mine. But reading about different types of virus here and the ways they express... and other causes of streaked flowers, has me convinced that I don't know nearly enough about it to comment on yours!

Hi John: If more than one flower on this plant shows this condition AND the spots go all the way through to the reverse of the petals, then it is infected. The reason I say more than one flower is because occasionally petals can stick together as the flower opens and when they finally pull apart to open, they can leave a blemish, but that blemish WILL NOT show through on the reverse side.

If we accept as fact this plant has recently been infected, then it needs to be removed. The other Anastasia plants close to it in your group may or MAY NOT YET be infected but are highly suspect due to their proximity to this one and the fact you've been digging in there. So you need to monitor them closely next year. The age of plants is another factor to consider. The older a plant is the more time it has had to be exposed to virus's.

You have to use extreme caution when removing and handling infected plants to avoid spreading the infection yourself. Make sure all your tools, shovels, spades, forks or whatever are soaked in a pail of bleach and that your hands are washed and rinsed in alcohol after working with an infected plant and before you even touch another lily bulb. Many of us can easily get lulled into a false sense of security because you can't see a virus and we think everything is OK---but it's not. It can get on you, mainly your hands, and then you become the vector that will contaminate many more, especially during Fall planting of newly acquired bulbs, etc. When I remove an infected plant, I will not do any more lily work that particular day.

What other lilies do you have growing? Around here, I have mostly Trumpets and Aurelians with a few commercially available ones for show in a mixed garden. No Anastasia yet, though. That's usually a pretty virus resistant/tolerant plant from what I've heard.

Yes, if there is more than one flower on the same stalk, I would expect multiple flowers to be affected it it is a virus. I'll have to ruminate some more about the expectation of the errant white needing to be through to the backs of the petals to signify a virus; the layers of cells from top to bottom(or front to back) are not homogenous, so I don't think I would dictate that viral reactions would be homogenous throughout. Notice, for example, that the spots in the same areas seem not to be affected at all. Looking back over some other pics I have of virused flowers, this seems to be a common trait. But to be a blemish as Lorn describes, he is right that it would not affect the petal backs.

Lorn's blemish experiences are good things to keep in mind when encountering abnormalities, but in this case I don't think they apply. Wouldn't the spots (also on the surface) be effected physically in the same manner as the surrounding surface?

Barring more revealing information, my inclination is to say your flower is not virused if this pic shows the only abnormality. But I still might think about removing it or moving it to a more isolated position, just in case. Why take a chance? Of course, that's me: one who might be considered (by other gardeners) ruthless with my plants. I "throw out" plants all the time. Heck, think about all those lily bulbs I have to eat.....

Here is another for everyone one to ponder, from this summer's bloom:

Oriental lily, should look like this:



It opened like this, all blooms affected in a similar way, foliage looked ok:

Pretty . Appears to be a genetic glitch or an unstable clone.

I don't think so, Lorn. I have had it for YEARS and it has outlived any other Oriental lily I have tried. It is from Judith's Summer's End strain. I noticed that the breaking (if that is what it is) occurs only at the margins and affects only the petals, not the sepals. Still I worry that it is virus because this lily is no longer available (thought it looks like she is selling seeds).

A couple of other things I can add is that we had a very cold winter (for us); long stretches of single digit temperatures, the lowest at my place was 0F. The other nearby Summer's Ends were not affected. Also my lilies are not planted very deep (3" at the most) and I don't mulch.

That is really strange. It's not TBV. What in the world could that be, that affected the color development of all the buds in the same manner! Then it must be environmental. I've never seen quite such a thing.

Yes, it is very strange. I took the risk and didn't discard it. Will try to update everyone next year. It is good to know what is or isn't virus, especially if it is a treasured lily.

It's still a good idea to start some from seed. You know what we say about older plants. Nothing lives forever and besides young plants are so fresh and vigorous--it's just a joy and pleasure to watch them get to blooming stage.

I can't say I have been successful with Oriental seeds. Oh I get them germinated and all but they don't seem to survive. The only time I managed to get some to a small stem stage I stepped on them. Then a few more times. I guess I didn't have them in a good place.

I think Summer's End lilies are an F1 strain, meaning Judith uses specific parents. Best to buy seed from her to get the same strain.

Somehow I have the suspicion that your lily has caught something, Pard. Perhaps not a virus, but a mycoplasma or similar. They seem to be more varied in their symptoms, depending on what species (lily or otherwise) they infect. Mycoplasma can coexist with many species and do tend to produce uniform "abnormalities".
And I still have my suspicions about Orange Electric....

Yeah, whats with Orange Electric anyway? That lily never looks healthy (weird color aside). The tepals are ratty looking and usually somewhat "cupped".

Orange Electric:

Lily (Lilium 'Orange Electric')

I like your 'sport', Connie. And this is a very interesting conversation.

Leftwood said:I'll have to ruminate some more about the expectation of the errant white needing to be through to the backs of the petals to signify a virus; the layers of cells from top to bottom(or front to back) are not homogenous, so I don't think I would dictate that viral reactions would be homogenous throughout. Notice, for example, that the spots in the same areas seem not to be affected at all. Looking back over some other pics I have of virused flowers, this seems to be a common trait. But to be a blemish as Lorn describes, he is right that it would not affect the petal backs.

Here are some pictures that I think illustrate what Rick is talking about. There are areas where the errant white will not go through, particularly those areas of heavy or varying petal substance such as mid ribs and mid rib farrows, spots and papillae. These pictures are of two different flowers, and there are two pictures of each flower showing the face and reverse of each, with specific 'landmark' blocked areas to look at. Disregard the rips and tears; those are from last summer's mysterious bird attack. If you look at the face views, you can see long streaks of color blocking running along each side of the rib farrow, but no blocking on the farrow itself. Looking at the same feature on the reverse, one can see the mid rib and areas immediately next to it are not blocked all the way through. These are areas of heavy or increasing substance. Now, examining the sepals feature, one can see a dominant block on the face view of each flower. Examining the reverses, one can easily identify the same block showing all the way through. These are areas of fairly constant petal substance. So, color blocking need not go all the way through to signal TBV, but it's a sure sign if it does.


1a





1b




2a





2b

Della, thanks for the welcome to the forum. It's a pleasure to be able to interact with fellow lily enthusiasts. Lorn and Rick, I truly appreciate your thoughtful replies to my inquiry. I've now become a fanatic about sterilizing all my tools between pruning or transplanting. Hopefully this will help stem any virus transmission in my collection. I decided to wait till next Spring to verify if the color breaking on Anastasia is related to a virus as I already removes all the related plant material. I may be taking a risk but I was told that I can test early in the Spring through the Chicago Botanic Gardens. Lorn, I have been slowly adding to my lily collection over the past 3 years with mostly OTs but a smattering of others. My pride and joy is a stand of Lilium philadelphicum that appeared in my lily bed as a natural gift and clear beacon that I should proceed with my collection. It's the very first lily to bloom in my yard and a welcome sign of the blooms to come. Here a closeup. I hope I identified it correctly. I had nothing to do with it's appearance. I know I will welcome other's opinions. All the best.

John, that would be Lilium dauricum, and more likely a Lilium dauricum hybrid. A very nice specimen, too!
Once you see photos of dauricum and philadelphicum together, you will see there is quite a difference.
This is Lilium philadelphicum: