Plant ID forum: Unknown glaucous vine

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Name: Ron
Naples, Florida (Zone 10a)
Region: Florida Hummingbirder Butterflies Bromeliad Tropicals Foliage Fan
Plant and/or Seed Trader Xeriscape Seed Starter The WITWIT Badge Garden Ideas: Level 1 Plant Identifier
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rattlebox
Jul 31, 2014 3:39 PM CST
These seedlings started appearing this past spring. I left a few to see what they turned out to be. But they just kept popping up. Everywhere. I decided whatever they were, they were much too invasive to keep; so I pulled everyone I found.

Now I'm curious again. There are a few here and there, but none large enough to bloom. The seed leaves look familiar to me, but I can't place them. The vine is not familiar.

Seed leaves:

Thumb of 2014-07-31/rattlebox/b9bb75


The seed leaves are rather distinctive. Three other clues: 1) The true leaves are heart-shaped, 2) the leaves are gray/glaucous, and 3) the vine attaches by tendrils, it does not twine.

Vines:

Thumb of 2014-07-31/rattlebox/44abc1 Thumb of 2014-07-31/rattlebox/21120b

Interestingly, the vines are growing rather slowly, not aggressive and rampant as I would have expected.
[He] decided that if a few quiet beers wouldn't allow him to see things in a different light, then a few more probably would. - Terry Pratchett
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level
Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Region: Florida Dog Lover Birds
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flaflwrgrl
Jul 31, 2014 7:31 PM CST
Looks like some kind of morning glory to me Ron.
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others.
~~ Sharon Brown ~~



Name: Ron
Naples, Florida (Zone 10a)
Region: Florida Hummingbirder Butterflies Bromeliad Tropicals Foliage Fan
Plant and/or Seed Trader Xeriscape Seed Starter The WITWIT Badge Garden Ideas: Level 1 Plant Identifier
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rattlebox
Jul 31, 2014 8:18 PM CST
One of my first thoughts as well, Ann.

I have done a lot of internet searching with different terms looking at vines and seedlings. In fact, I had felt certain it was a Morning Glory (or close relative), but all the Morning Glory seedlings I could find had two "wings" on each seed leaf, not four. Also, the tendrils part throws me.

The seed leaf seems so distinctive I felt sure someone would know it immediately.
[He] decided that if a few quiet beers wouldn't allow him to see things in a different light, then a few more probably would. - Terry Pratchett
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level
Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Region: Florida Dog Lover Birds
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flaflwrgrl
Jul 31, 2014 8:30 PM CST
It seems familiar to me too Ron, VERY familiar. And I grew up & only recently moved from the east coast across from you. I can feel that plant beneath my fingers but my mind is not following through.
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others.
~~ Sharon Brown ~~



Name: Ron
Naples, Florida (Zone 10a)
Region: Florida Hummingbirder Butterflies Bromeliad Tropicals Foliage Fan
Plant and/or Seed Trader Xeriscape Seed Starter The WITWIT Badge Garden Ideas: Level 1 Plant Identifier
Image
rattlebox
Jul 31, 2014 9:27 PM CST
Thanks, Ann for trying to help.

Hopefully someone will recognize it.

The sprouts seem too large to be from wind-borne seed. So I expect the seed arrived in bird droppings. And since there are so many of them and so widely scattered, I suspect migrating birds like blackbirds or robins.
[He] decided that if a few quiet beers wouldn't allow him to see things in a different light, then a few more probably would. - Terry Pratchett
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level
Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Region: Florida Dog Lover Birds
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flaflwrgrl
Aug 1, 2014 11:59 AM CST
Ron, you can look here:
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/mg097
Scroll down until you get to the tables listing the different vines. It will say what portion of the state it grows in as well as a key for twining by tendrils - which is C.
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others.
~~ Sharon Brown ~~



Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
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HamiltonSquare
Aug 1, 2014 4:48 PM CST
I've been searching for hours.....the palmate cotyledon is a real stumper? Are all the seed leaves like this? Blinking Confused
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level
Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Region: Florida Dog Lover Birds
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flaflwrgrl
Aug 1, 2014 5:11 PM CST
Thing is, I know I've seen the palmate cotyledon & it's resulting vine. My mind is just blocked.
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others.
~~ Sharon Brown ~~



Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
Region: United States of America Morning Glories Region: Florida Houseplants Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Procrastinator Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
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plantladylin
Aug 1, 2014 6:04 PM CST
I wonder if it could be Coral Vine (Antigonon leptopus) (a Category II invasive here in Florida)

http://www.fnai.org/Invasives/Antigonon_leptopus_FNAI.pdf

http://www.floridata.com/ref/a/anti_lep.cfm
~ Eat, Sleep .... Play in the dirt ~
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level
Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Region: Florida Dog Lover Birds
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flaflwrgrl
Aug 1, 2014 6:35 PM CST
Nope, I thought of that Lin & checked it out; the leaves are all wrong.
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others.
~~ Sharon Brown ~~



Name: Ron
Naples, Florida (Zone 10a)
Region: Florida Hummingbirder Butterflies Bromeliad Tropicals Foliage Fan
Plant and/or Seed Trader Xeriscape Seed Starter The WITWIT Badge Garden Ideas: Level 1 Plant Identifier
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rattlebox
Aug 1, 2014 7:53 PM CST
I worked through the EDIS site, found no help there.

The only decent photo I could find of a Coral Vine seedling is this one (clearly not what I have):
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/141493/

The cotyledon shape displayed in my photos above is typical, especially in photo #2.

I'll be tied up with work for the next couple of days so won't be able to do much, but if we haven't come up with an answer, by then I'll try to get more pics Mon or Tue.

I do understand the spending hours searching. the internet. I have done that a few times over the past 3-4 months myself trying to ID these vines. I become obsessed and feel like I may be only one page of images or one search term away from finding my answer!

Thanks for everyone's help in trying to figure it out.
[He] decided that if a few quiet beers wouldn't allow him to see things in a different light, then a few more probably would. - Terry Pratchett
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level
Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Region: Florida Dog Lover Birds
Image
flaflwrgrl
Aug 1, 2014 8:19 PM CST
There are times I have learned that it might be less time consuming to just wait for a bloom. Hilarious! Hilarious! Believe me, I know the spending hours & hours searching the "net" just to come up empty.
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others.
~~ Sharon Brown ~~



Name: Ron
Naples, Florida (Zone 10a)
Region: Florida Hummingbirder Butterflies Bromeliad Tropicals Foliage Fan
Plant and/or Seed Trader Xeriscape Seed Starter The WITWIT Badge Garden Ideas: Level 1 Plant Identifier
Image
rattlebox
Aug 5, 2014 4:01 PM CST
Here are a few more pics:



This one gives a good idea of the glaucous leaf color:



Here are a few more seedlings. Sorry for the poor quality. A new batch of 10-12 seedlings have just sprouted and I was trying to show the cotyledons of several at once. Didn't work out too well.

Thumb of 2014-08-05/rattlebox/4407d7 Thumb of 2014-08-05/rattlebox/afc7c1

I'm pretty much leaving them grow wherever I find them, as they are in a variety of habitats. Some seem to be doing OK. Some seem to be struggling a bit. These can be side by side. All seem to be growing rather slow. None seem anywhere near ready to bloom.

The last batch of seedlings are in mostly full sun. Unfortunately I had pulled up numerous vines that were doing well earlier in the year, as I was afraid they were aggressively invasive and didn't want them to get out of control. Apparently I did not need to worry so much.

Still hoping for an ID.
[He] decided that if a few quiet beers wouldn't allow him to see things in a different light, then a few more probably would. - Terry Pratchett
Name: Ron
Naples, Florida (Zone 10a)
Region: Florida Hummingbirder Butterflies Bromeliad Tropicals Foliage Fan
Plant and/or Seed Trader Xeriscape Seed Starter The WITWIT Badge Garden Ideas: Level 1 Plant Identifier
Image
rattlebox
Dec 28, 2014 5:52 PM CST
Identified as Cissus verticillata 'Albonitens', Curtain Ivy, Princess Vine, Millionaire Vine.

Generally known as Cissus albonitens, Cissus sicyoides 'Albonitens' or Cissus sicyoides albo-nitens.Cissus albonitens and Cissus sicyoides are both listed as synonyms of Cissus verticillata.

Leave edges on older/larger plants tend to be more dentate than crenate. The frequent dropping of fine aerial roots is distinctive, hence the name "Curtain Ivy". Other species of Cissus have cotyledons that are multilobed similar to this plant, though not as dramatically as with this vine.

:Leaves of typical Cissus verticillata are green, with those of the Albonitens strain being silvery-grey.

Thanks, Greene, for sending me back to take one more look at C. verticillata.

[He] decided that if a few quiet beers wouldn't allow him to see things in a different light, then a few more probably would. - Terry Pratchett
Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
Region: United States of America Morning Glories Region: Florida Houseplants Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Procrastinator Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
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plantladylin
Dec 28, 2014 6:06 PM CST
Ron, I'm so glad you found an identity for that one! Apparently C. verticillata is a Florida native: http://florida.plantatlas.usf.edu/Plant.aspx?id=2791

Interesting information here: http://www.plantbook.org/plantdata/weeds/w_cissus_verticilla...

I hope you will consider adding a few photos to the database since there are currently none there: Princess Vine (Cissus verticillata)
~ Eat, Sleep .... Play in the dirt ~
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
Foliage Fan Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Bee Lover Hummingbirder Butterflies
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HamiltonSquare
Dec 28, 2014 6:59 PM CST
Hurray! This thread has been in the back of my mind. I see the database has no picture Cissus verticillata and is missing the common name of "Curtain Ivy". However , I can find no valid reference for the cultivar C. 'Albonitens'. There is also still a listing in the db for the synonym C.sycyoides. I just submitted a merge into C. verticillata. Thank you for digging this up! I tip my hat to you.
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
Name: Ron
Naples, Florida (Zone 10a)
Region: Florida Hummingbirder Butterflies Bromeliad Tropicals Foliage Fan
Plant and/or Seed Trader Xeriscape Seed Starter The WITWIT Badge Garden Ideas: Level 1 Plant Identifier
Image
rattlebox
Dec 28, 2014 7:39 PM CST
I put in to add the 'Albonitens' version to the database. If approved, I'll add multiple photos.

I had seen so many photos from Asia, I had missed that this was a Florida native, at least the green version. Guess I'll have to keep an eye out for the Metallic Weevil!

Also, the aerial roots look like fun, HERE and HERE.

Too bad the vine has the potential to be such thug Kudzu-style!

[He] decided that if a few quiet beers wouldn't allow him to see things in a different light, then a few more probably would. - Terry Pratchett
Name: Ron
Naples, Florida (Zone 10a)
Region: Florida Hummingbirder Butterflies Bromeliad Tropicals Foliage Fan
Plant and/or Seed Trader Xeriscape Seed Starter The WITWIT Badge Garden Ideas: Level 1 Plant Identifier
Image
rattlebox
Dec 28, 2014 7:52 PM CST
Leslieray, The Plant List lists Cissus albonitens as a synonym of C. verticillata. The silver-grey form is widely referred to on the internet as Cissus sicyoides 'Albonitens' (or Cissus sicyoides albo-nitens). The primary form shown is plain green.

The silver-grey variety is clearly a stable genetic version, as I have had upwards of a couple hundred seedlings appear on my property, all silver-grey.

I expected to see it more prominently listed in the major databases. Not sure how this is best handled in the database, but the silvery variety is clearly separate from the green form.

[He] decided that if a few quiet beers wouldn't allow him to see things in a different light, then a few more probably would. - Terry Pratchett
[Last edited by rattlebox - Dec 28, 2014 7:54 PM (+)]
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Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
Foliage Fan Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Bee Lover Hummingbirder Butterflies
Image
HamiltonSquare
Dec 28, 2014 10:22 PM CST
I have read all that. I also came across a description of the leaves that states (s.i.c.) they are usually densely pubescent but sometimes almost glabrous. It exhibits a great deal of variation in pubescence and leaf form, as a result of which numerous varieties have been named. (Standley & Steyermark, 1949; pp. 298-299). This may explain why there are no varieties listed in the db. Perhaps the silver-grey (pubescent) plants fall within the natural variation within the species C. verticillata. That description, in full, can be found at Pacific Island Ecosystems at Risk (PIER) website. I tip my hat to you.
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.

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