I wonder if all this fungicide is killing off the symbiotic mycorrhizae "helpful fungus", resulting in stunted daylily growth?

plasko20 said:I wonder if all this fungicide is killing off the symbiotic mycorrhizae "helpful fungus", resulting in stunted daylily growth?

Fungicides can have unintended effects, increases in aphids for example but some people have also mentioned liking the darker foliage from the manganese in one contact fungicide. Also plant growth regulators are related to certain fungicides but if they're used properly according to the label one would hope negative effects would be minimized. I know that some people have got the idea that daylily rust is soilborne, I don't know where that came from. I wouldn't think spraying a degreaser (detergent?) directly on the soil in any quantity would be a good thing.

I don't know how dependent daylilies are on mycorrhizae, if at all, but fertilizer should compensate for any loss.

Actually from what I have read after several applications of some systemic fungicides they claim the plants responded as if on steroids, not with reduction in growth. All I can say is that this year my plants looked better than ever with more blooms...I can not say that was due to the fungicide I used.

Hi All,

There is so much going on here I don't know where to start! I never heard of "Green Magic" so I looked it up on eBay. His pictures showed some which looked clean, supposedly 6 weeks after using it. That's purely anecdotal, uncontrolled, and unverifiable "testimony" - the kind of "proof" always used by charlatans. The very fact it's called "magic" should be a clue too.

He calls it a "daylily rust remover" rather than a fungicide. This is an attempt to avoid being charged with selling an unregistered pesticide. He gives no clue what's in it.

It's important to understand that no detergent can remove rust pustules from leaves once they have formed! The pustules have grown by converting the plants tissues to grow their structures. And the rust mycelia are present beyond the pustules. Removing any loose spores could be done but the pustule will produce more until it is exhausted.

GM says it's a degreaser. Using a degreaser on plant foliage is not a good idea. The waxes coating the surface of most leaves helps protect them from drying out.

Pat @xenacrockett What is the $500 gallon fungicide used by Wynn Daylilies? They don't mention it on their website. Even without knowing what it is, I know that price would be for the concentrated product not for the diluted spray as applied.

More later.

Pat

For what it is worth, I bought my Green Magic from a company that makes cleaning products. I did not know it was actually advertised as a daylily rust remover.

You know, I have not read anything about Green Magic not working by anyone who has actually used it. Now knowing how people are, I almost would say that is a testimonial. I have been told a club member swears by it doing a great job. Not saying it works or does not, but I have used it, but I can't give it any bad reviews no more than I can give good reviews for the expensive chemicals I am using. Did the rust go away when I used Green Magic...yes to a large degree it did. Now did the rust abate due to the Green Magic or due to the 90 deg. plus days we got?
Now for cleaning a microwave oven that somehow had gotten coated with what seemed to be an unremovable greasy sticky coating, and I do mean a sticky mess, that just normal household cleaners would not touch. I can highly recommend Green Magic. I had bought it for rust on daylilies, but after my wife and I both exhausted our ideas and our arms trying to clean the mess, I remembered the Green Magic degreaser, and man did it do a perfect job. That microwave is still sparking like new!!

DeweyRooter said:For what it is worth, I bought my Green Magic from a company that makes cleaning products. I did not know it was actually advertised as a daylily rust remover.

I believe there is more than one cleaning product sold under the name "Green Magic" so you may not have got the one that is often touted for daylilies?

I think sooby is correct!! I think Lynn Treece markets the Green Magic degreaser that is used for rust treatment on daylilies.

Neem is used by many as an 'organic' anti-fungal/bacterial/insecticidal.
It has almost mythical properties, like the epsom salts, so most of the claims I take as total nonsense.
However, I do note that it makes all my leaves have a lovely glossy shine after spraying.
So, I use it to pretty-up my garden (and the smell is pleasing, too). If it kills baddies, I consider that a bonus.
If I ever get rust, I think I will try that. It seems to go hand-in-hand with this de-greaser. Neem is probably a surfactant aswell, like detergents (hence the glossy leaves after use).

The Green Magic I bought is made by Unitex and sold by Jon-Don, a company that sells various industrial cleaning products. That was what was recommended to me.

I found the list of ingredients online if anyone is interested. I do not know if the list for Lynn Treece's Green Magic is available.

DeweyRooter said:The Green Magic I bought is made by Unitex and sold by Jon-Don, a company that sells various industrial cleaning products. That was what was recommended to me.

I found the list of ingredients online if anyone is interested. I do not know if the list for Lynn Treece's Green Magic is available.

I saw that one, one of several "Green Magic" products that come up on searches. The SDS says:

Proprietary surfactant
Tetrapotassium pyrophosphate
Propylene glycol methyl ether

I think you would have to ask Lynn Treece for his SDS, I don't think it is online. I suspect whoever recommended the other one didn't realize there are several different products with the same name.

Tetrapotassium pyrophosphate:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Neem is an oil, that's why it makes the leaves glossy. As you say, much over-used and touted. It's expensive too, and in my experience doesn't do much good either as fungicide or insecticide.

Down here we can't spray anything oily or soapy on any leaves except in winter. It makes the sun burn the leaves. If I use soap as an insect remedy, I use it in the evenings, and rinse it off before the sun hits the next morning.

Fwiw, we've been using Tebuconazole 3.6F Fungicide Offset Torque, whenever we see any sign of Rust. We've found it to be very effective against Rust and Leaf Streak. Had an outbreak last year. Ironically, the first year we opened. Talk about a double whammy; had to deal with Covid and Rust, all in our first year. At any rate, after doing some reading/research on different methods to combat Rust, we put together an action plan.

First, always water earlier in the day. The Rust spores thrive in moist and humid environments. Watering late in the day just encourages them.

Additionally, allow plenty of spacing between plants. Plants that are lumped together tightly have more difficulty drying out, thus, encouraging Rust.

Trim off any infected foliage, and dispose of in a sealed container. Even burning the cut foliage doesn't kill all the spores.

We use a spraying regimen of once every 3 weeks or so, depending on how much rain we've had late in the day.

Following those guidelines, and spraying with what I referred to above periodically, has helped us eradicate the Rust issue. That said, we remain diligent, as Rust spores can survive and remain inert until the right environment presents itself.

Jobe

Jobe01 said:Fwiw, we've been using Tebuconazole 3.6F Fungicide Offset Torque, whenever we see any sign of Rust. We've found it to be very effective against Rust and Leaf Streak. Had an outbreak last year. Ironically, the first year we opened. Talk about a double whammy; had to deal with Covid and Rust, all in our first year. At any rate, after doing some reading/research on different methods to combat Rust, we put together an action plan.

First, always water earlier in the day. The Rust spores thrive in moist and humid environments. Watering late in the day just encourages them.

Additionally, allow plenty of spacing between plants. Plants that are lumped together tightly have more difficulty drying out, thus, encouraging Rust.

Trim off any infected foliage, and dispose of in a sealed container. Even burning the cut foliage doesn't kill all the spores.

We use a spraying regimen of once every 3 weeks or so, depending on how much rain we've had late in the day.

Following those guidelines, and spraying with what I referred to above periodically, has helped us eradicate the Rust issue. That said, we remain diligent, as Rust spores can survive and remain inert until the right environment presents itself.

Jobe

Yes, Tebuconazole is the one recommended for daylilies in scientific studies. However, it costs a fortune to the everyday gardener. It is more for commercial applications, sadly. Or rich people.
https://apsjournals.apsnet.org...

plasko20 said:

Yes, Tebuconazole is the one recommended for daylilies in scientific studies. However, it costs a fortune to the everyday gardener. It is more for commercial applications, sadly. Or rich people.
https://apsjournals.apsnet.org...

Thanks for the response Plasko. We spent, I think it was $79 for a one gallon supply. The gallon supply will take care of our daylilies, about 2 acres worth, for the season. It's concentrated, so goes a long way. I think you can purchase smaller quantities. It's certainly less than a DF of some of the recently registered cultivars that some hybridizers are selling, so worth the investment.

I am not rich for sure, and I only have a home garden and do not sell and I used to think the exact thing that Plasko20 mentions in the above post..."no way can I afford that" I thought. But after paying for cheaper products that did not get the job done, I finally broke down and bought some more expensive chemicals. Azoxystrobin is also pretty pricy and Abamectin is not exactly cheap either. But, I just could not tolerate my daylilies having so much damage from all the pest that attack daylilies these days. I was embarrassed to take plants to club meetings and I never would have ever taken any to the National like I did this year. My best moment at the National in Hattiesburg this year was when I dropped off my plants at the sales table and the man and lady working the tables putting out the plants both came over an complimented me and said "you brought some really nice looking plants".
So yes the "commercial chemicals" do seem pricy, but the one pint of Azoxystrobin will last me the entire season, and I have a lot of plants and many of them are very large in size. The quart of Abamectin will last for several seasons. It takes me all morning to spray my plants, and I had much rather not waste all that time with chemicals that don't do the job.
All that said, I still can not absolutely say that it is the chemicals that have made such a difference, I need to tour some local gardens and see how they are looking now, then I will be better able to judge. I do know my plants have never looked this rust fee and shown so little leafminer damage compared to the past few years.
At the Nationals there was a lot of leafminer damage showing in the gardens, but very little rust. Every garden I went to except for Suburban Daylilies I asked how they treated rust and leafminer..I got different answers from all of them.

That is true, Jobe01.
Source 1:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XGD6RJG/
Source2:
[removed to a new post as the Garden.org website is buggy and keeps reposting the same link when I put a new link]

Darn. There seems to be a bug on the Garden.org website that re-posts prior links when you post new ones. Most annoying.
Source2:
https://www.domyown.com/search...

Larry, you are right. If I was showing and selling daylilies to people I would also have an element of personal pride push me further into paying more for a better upkeep of them. People are very judgy, I get that. I would do as you have done, for sure. Azoxystrobin is systemic, and I adore systemic treatments.

plasko20 said:That is true, Jobe01.
Source 1:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XGD6RJG/
Source2:
[removed to a new post as the Garden.org website is buggy and keeps reposting the same link when I put a new link]

I was thinking $79 for the gallon. May be that the price has gone up a little. Either way, it's a good value as the gallon will last us more than one season in treating our 2 acre nursery.

Doesn't Bayer Advanced Disease Control for Roses etc. have tebuconazole as the active ingredient? That comes up at US$23 for enough to make 42 gallons according to one Google result (I have problems with these searches sometimes because I get automatically switched to Canada and a lot of pesticides you can get there are not permitted for homeowners here).

I find I have to watch Amazon, sometimes the prices are actually very high compared to elsewhere.