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Jun 29, 2017 11:02 PM CST
Name: Evelyn
Sierra foothills, Northern CA (Zone 8a)
Irises Region: Ukraine Garden Procrastinator Bee Lover Butterflies Plant and/or Seed Trader
Region: California Cat Lover Deer Bulbs Foliage Fan Annuals
My zinnias that I sowed about a week ago started to come up, and then got attacked by some bug. Not much left of them.
"Luck favors the prepared mind." - Thomas Jefferson
Avatar for ZenMan
Jun 29, 2017 11:52 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: ZenMan
Kansas (Zone 5b)
Kansas 5b
Annuals Enjoys or suffers cold winters Region: United States of America Seed Starter Keeper of Poultry Hybridizer
Hummingbirder Dragonflies Garden Photography Butterflies Zinnias Garden Ideas: Level 2
evelyninthegarden said:My zinnias that I sowed about a week ago started to come up, and then got attacked by some bug. Not much left of them.

Hi Evelyn,

A photo of the damage might help identify the attacker. If the attacker is known, effective measures can be taken against it. Do you know if the attack occurred at night? Replanting is an option. But we need to know what we are dealing with.

ZM
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Jun 30, 2017 12:04 AM CST
Name: Jai or Jack
WV (Zone 6b)
Om shanti om.
Region: West Virginia Container Gardener Multi-Region Gardener Garden Photography Amaryllis Zinnias
Gardens in Buckets Annuals Houseplants Plant and/or Seed Trader Birds Garden Ideas: Level 1
ZenMan said:
Hi Evelyn,

A photo of the damage might help identify the attacker. If the attacker is known, effective measures can be taken against it. Do you know if the attack occurred at night? Replanting is an option. But we need to know what we are dealing with.

ZM


I agree that pictures would help.

I know it is not popular on this forum but I am not opposed to using broad range systemic insecticides on ornamentals, especially in cases where you're not sure about what kind of insect is doing the damage.
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Jun 30, 2017 1:30 PM CST
Name: Evelyn
Sierra foothills, Northern CA (Zone 8a)
Irises Region: Ukraine Garden Procrastinator Bee Lover Butterflies Plant and/or Seed Trader
Region: California Cat Lover Deer Bulbs Foliage Fan Annuals
Jai ~ You do not need to worry about that with me. They are so tiny that it nay not be effective to apply neem oil.

(I would not put any poison in the soil for any reason.)
"Luck favors the prepared mind." - Thomas Jefferson
Avatar for ZenMan
Jun 30, 2017 2:20 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: ZenMan
Kansas (Zone 5b)
Kansas 5b
Annuals Enjoys or suffers cold winters Region: United States of America Seed Starter Keeper of Poultry Hybridizer
Hummingbirder Dragonflies Garden Photography Butterflies Zinnias Garden Ideas: Level 2
evelyninthegarden said:They are so tiny that it may not be effective to apply neem oil.
(I would not put any poison in the soil for any reason.)

Hi Evelyn,

I take it that by "They are so tiny that it may not be effective to apply neem oil" you are referring to your zinnia seedlings being "tiny", and not to the pests that attacked them.

Incidentally, Neem Oil is illegal in the United Kingdom.

http://webarchive.nationalarch...

ZM
I tip my hat to you.
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Jun 30, 2017 2:41 PM CST
Name: Evelyn
Sierra foothills, Northern CA (Zone 8a)
Irises Region: Ukraine Garden Procrastinator Bee Lover Butterflies Plant and/or Seed Trader
Region: California Cat Lover Deer Bulbs Foliage Fan Annuals
Do you think it is harmful?
"Luck favors the prepared mind." - Thomas Jefferson
Avatar for ZenMan
Jun 30, 2017 10:22 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: ZenMan
Kansas (Zone 5b)
Kansas 5b
Annuals Enjoys or suffers cold winters Region: United States of America Seed Starter Keeper of Poultry Hybridizer
Hummingbirder Dragonflies Garden Photography Butterflies Zinnias Garden Ideas: Level 2
evelyninthegarden said:Do you think it is harmful?

Hi Evelyn,

I am NOT an organic gardener and I have never used Neem Oil and I don't intend to ever use it. I don't know if it is "harmful".

However, I also don't know that it is not harmful, and that is a different thing altogether.

ZM
I tip my hat to you.
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Jun 30, 2017 11:09 PM CST
Name: Evelyn
Sierra foothills, Northern CA (Zone 8a)
Irises Region: Ukraine Garden Procrastinator Bee Lover Butterflies Plant and/or Seed Trader
Region: California Cat Lover Deer Bulbs Foliage Fan Annuals
ZM ~ Here is the motley picture...
Thumb of 2017-07-01/evelyninthegarden/5b1b83

I took some others but they did not come out.
"Luck favors the prepared mind." - Thomas Jefferson
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Jun 30, 2017 11:26 PM CST
Name: Jai or Jack
WV (Zone 6b)
Om shanti om.
Region: West Virginia Container Gardener Multi-Region Gardener Garden Photography Amaryllis Zinnias
Gardens in Buckets Annuals Houseplants Plant and/or Seed Trader Birds Garden Ideas: Level 1
Slug damage.
Avatar for ZenMan
Jul 1, 2017 8:52 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: ZenMan
Kansas (Zone 5b)
Kansas 5b
Annuals Enjoys or suffers cold winters Region: United States of America Seed Starter Keeper of Poultry Hybridizer
Hummingbirder Dragonflies Garden Photography Butterflies Zinnias Garden Ideas: Level 2
Hi Evelyn,

Jai is probably right that your problem is slug damage. Slugs and snails are safely and effectively controlled by use of a slug bait called Sluggo.

http://www.pestproducts.com/sl...

You can get Sluggo at many stores, including some Walmarts. There is a more expensive version of the product containing additional active ingredients, and I advise against using that. The product in the link is what I am recommending. I use it myself to control slugs.

Your zinnia appears to be starting in an environment containing rotting vegetable matter, like an organic mulch of some kind. Material like that is a breeding environment for fungal diseases, and I suggest you remove it in areas where you plan to raise zinnias. Control the slugs with Sluggo, clean out a space, and replant your zinnias. Fortunately zinnias grow fast.

Incidentally, if you want to use a mulch on your zinnias, I use sand. It acts as a dust mulch and doesn't harbor disease or pests. Slugs, snails, pillbugs, and earwigs avoid sand.

ZM
(not associated with any product or vendor mentioned or linked)
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Jul 1, 2017 10:15 AM CST
Name: Evelyn
Sierra foothills, Northern CA (Zone 8a)
Irises Region: Ukraine Garden Procrastinator Bee Lover Butterflies Plant and/or Seed Trader
Region: California Cat Lover Deer Bulbs Foliage Fan Annuals
Sorry, there are no slugs here, or snails. Could earworms cause this? There are scads of earworms all over the garden.
"Luck favors the prepared mind." - Thomas Jefferson
Avatar for ZenMan
Jul 1, 2017 12:22 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: ZenMan
Kansas (Zone 5b)
Kansas 5b
Annuals Enjoys or suffers cold winters Region: United States of America Seed Starter Keeper of Poultry Hybridizer
Hummingbirder Dragonflies Garden Photography Butterflies Zinnias Garden Ideas: Level 2
evelyninthegarden said:Sorry, there are no slugs here, or snails. Could earworms cause this? There are scads of earworms all over the garden.

Hi Evelyn,

Well, earworms are corn earworms, and those occur inside corn ears, concealed by corn ear shucks. I take it that these worms that are "all over the garden" are visible, and could be photographed. The distressed zinnia plant that you showed didn't look like it had been eaten by a worm. One of its seed leaves seemed to be under attack by a fungal disease. Do you have any birds? Normally birds eat any worms that are visible.

And do you have any remaining zinnia plants? Their status would be of interest. Maybe just replant your zinnias now, and see what happens. But clean away that rotting stuff first. Just get your rake and start raking.

ZM
I tip my hat to you.
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Jul 1, 2017 2:41 PM CST
Name: Evelyn
Sierra foothills, Northern CA (Zone 8a)
Irises Region: Ukraine Garden Procrastinator Bee Lover Butterflies Plant and/or Seed Trader
Region: California Cat Lover Deer Bulbs Foliage Fan Annuals
I sowed seeds directly, since the weather is consistently hot, thinking that there would be no fungus. Sorry, I meant earwigs. They are under anything that I move.
"Luck favors the prepared mind." - Thomas Jefferson
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Jul 1, 2017 9:30 PM CST
Name: Jai or Jack
WV (Zone 6b)
Om shanti om.
Region: West Virginia Container Gardener Multi-Region Gardener Garden Photography Amaryllis Zinnias
Gardens in Buckets Annuals Houseplants Plant and/or Seed Trader Birds Garden Ideas: Level 1
Some slugs are very small and they only come out at night.

I have known people to be convinced the slugs are not their problem when if you go out at 3am with a flashlight and get on your knees you'll see them.

Your neighbors will think you're crazy, but that's OK, because if you're like me you probably are.
Avatar for ZenMan
Jul 1, 2017 11:06 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: ZenMan
Kansas (Zone 5b)
Kansas 5b
Annuals Enjoys or suffers cold winters Region: United States of America Seed Starter Keeper of Poultry Hybridizer
Hummingbirder Dragonflies Garden Photography Butterflies Zinnias Garden Ideas: Level 2
evelyninthegarden said:I sowed seeds directly, since the weather is consistently hot, thinking that there would be no fungus. Sorry, I meant earwigs. They are under anything that I move.

Hi Evelyn,

That rotting mulch is responsible for your earwigs. Remove it and the earwigs won't have anything to be under. The earwigs may be responsible for at least some of the damage to your zinnias.

However, when we suggested slugs, you responded quickly by saying "Sorry, there are no slugs here, or snails." How do you know that? It actually takes considerable effort to determine that you have no slugs or snails, and nothing that you have said so far indicates that you have taken the steps to eliminate slugs or snails as a possibility. You don't just go into your garden and look around and not see any slugs or snails and decide that you don't have any. They come out at night to feed and you need to go out at night with a strong light and as Jai said, get down low on your knees if necessary to see them with the light. And a single nighttime inspection is not sufficient. You don't prove the non-existence of a thing with a single casual inspection.

That rotting mulch can also harbor Pillbugs, and Pillbugs can also damage garden plants, including zinnias. I think it is very possible that you have at least three problems from the mulch -- slugs, earwigs, and pillbugs. You have confirmed the earwig problem. You have not excluded the pillbugs or slugs or snails. Rake that mulch up and put it on a compost pile where it belongs. Well away from your garden. You need to do that whether you grow zinnias or not. The earwigs are confirmed vermin harbored by the mulch. Slugs and pillbugs are probable additional infestations in the mulch.

ZM
I tip my hat to you.
Avatar for REL_SH
Jul 3, 2017 11:22 PM CST

Hello everyone.
My name is Ariel, I'm an agronomist from Israel, and I came across this great thread while searching for a solution to my problem.
I want to breed new varieties for cut flowers, but I have a problem with rooting the cuttings. I want to be able to increase the number of certain plants so I can produce more seeds. I tried so many times, with different rooting media- coco peat, perlite, vermiculite, peat moss and perltie, and even in plain water...nothing rooted.
I used 3 different brands of rooting hormones- powder and gel. I spray the cuttings with Physan20 to prevent crown rot, I used propagator, misting, air- conditioned room (low humidity)...Am I missing anything?!
I also tried taking off all of the leaves and leaving some of them on.
All cutting were taken off of well watered and fertilized mature plants.
Here are some photos of my rooting trials, and also some of my newly-germinated seedlings.
any suggestion would be great!
Thanks.





Thumb of 2017-07-04/REL_SH/dde33f



Thumb of 2017-07-04/REL_SH/aea93b
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Jul 4, 2017 1:22 AM CST
Name: Jai or Jack
WV (Zone 6b)
Om shanti om.
Region: West Virginia Container Gardener Multi-Region Gardener Garden Photography Amaryllis Zinnias
Gardens in Buckets Annuals Houseplants Plant and/or Seed Trader Birds Garden Ideas: Level 1
Growing zinnias from cuttings is just relatively difficult. They're annual flowers which do not form cuttings in the wild. It is not part of their nature.

It can be done, and has been done by ZenMan, but it's not natural for the plant and you have to keep trying over and over and expect to fail a lot (or maybe the majority) of the time.
Avatar for REL_SH
Jul 4, 2017 5:31 AM CST

Thanks Jai, I know they're difficult, But I also know it's possible. It seems like I'm forgetting something basic, and this is the reason for my question...I tried so many times, and expected to have roots even in a small proportion, but I got nothing.
(By the way, I don't know of any plants that form cuttings as a method of propagation in the wild, maybe some species of Asclepiadaceae family).
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Jul 4, 2017 5:50 AM CST
Name: Jai or Jack
WV (Zone 6b)
Om shanti om.
Region: West Virginia Container Gardener Multi-Region Gardener Garden Photography Amaryllis Zinnias
Gardens in Buckets Annuals Houseplants Plant and/or Seed Trader Birds Garden Ideas: Level 1
Cuttings (or "cuttings") are created naturally any time a plant gets trampled, broken, squashed, or loses parts of itself. Lots of plants can reproduce this way. Animals are the usual culprit, but the wind, landslides, and other elements can be involved, too.

These plants are usually perennials.
Avatar for ZenMan
Jul 5, 2017 11:12 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: ZenMan
Kansas (Zone 5b)
Kansas 5b
Annuals Enjoys or suffers cold winters Region: United States of America Seed Starter Keeper of Poultry Hybridizer
Hummingbirder Dragonflies Garden Photography Butterflies Zinnias Garden Ideas: Level 2
REL_SH said:I want to breed new varieties for cut flowers, but I have a problem with rooting the cuttings. I want to be able to increase the number of certain plants so I can produce more seeds. I tried so many times, with different rooting media- coco peat, perlite, vermiculite, peat moss and perltie, and even in plain water...nothing rooted.
I used 3 different brands of rooting hormones- powder and gel. I spray the cuttings with Physan20 to prevent crown rot, I used propagator, misting, air- conditioned room (low humidity)...Am I missing anything?!
I also tried taking off all of the leaves and leaving some of them on.

Hi Ariel, Welcome!
It's not obvious to me that you are missing anything. But since you are not having success and my zinnia cutting success rate is about 100%, you must be missing something. I use Premier Pro-Mix with added Perlite as a rooting medium, and I place one cutting per square 3.25-inch pot. I do incorporate the Physan 20 in the water that I moisten the medium with, diluted about one tablespoon per gallon. I place the cutting pots under an 8-inch humidity dome, where they stay 11 to 14 days before their rooting is complete. The humidity domes are under a bank of T8 6500K fluorescent lights, with a timer set for 16 hours of light and 8 hours of dark.

Incidentally, those zinnia branches in the garden that happen to be in contact with the ground will strike roots, much like tomatoes will, in the absence of any rooting hormone. But that is a much slower process than a formal hormone-treated rooting process. Incidentally, I much prefer to use a liquid rooting hormone named Dip 'n Grow, which contains two active ingredients:

Indole-3-butyric acid 1%
1-Napthaleneacetic acid 0.5%

https://www.dipngrow.com/techn...

It looks like your cutting picture may show some internodal tissue on the end. In any case, it is critical that the cuttings have some internodal tissue at the end, because that is where all of the quick roots emerge.

As you probably already know, you can get only 3 cuttings at best from a zinnia node, which usually limits the number of cuttings you can get from a zinnia plant to maybe 6 to 10 cuttings. A very branched plant might yield more. This is probably not necessary, but I will illustrate the steps in obtaining 3 viable cuttings from a zinnia node.

You need to click on these photos to see uncropped versions of them, and you can hit your F11 key to hide your browser headings for a fuller view. After you are done looking at the photos you can hit F11 again to restore the browser headings. (The Microsoft Edge browser does not support the F11 key, but most browsers do.)

Start with a piece of zinnia plant that contains two branches at a node, and remove the leaves from that node. Just tearing them away is fine.
Thumb of 2017-07-05/ZenMan/99e8ed Thumb of 2017-07-05/ZenMan/776a5f
Next, remove the stem below the node and trisect the node so as to share some of the nodal tissue with each cutting end.
Thumb of 2017-07-05/ZenMan/8b5807 Thumb of 2017-07-05/ZenMan/90e7b8
Remove all but two leaves from each cutting and place them in rooting medium under humidity domes.
Thumb of 2017-07-05/ZenMan/26e0b3 Thumb of 2017-07-05/ZenMan/76f1f9
As I mentioned previously, they will have enough roots to support them outside the dome in 11 to 14 days.

Incidentally, after the cuttings develop into branched plants, you can also take cuttings from those. I grow zinnias indoors as well as outdoors, so I can grow them year round. As an experiment, I grew quite a few zinnias from cuttings that were taken from plants that themselves were grown from cuttings. That "second generation" of cuttings had to be grown indoors under lights, but they grew fine. So I had zinnias growing that had originated from a seed that was germinated more than a year previously.

Which raises the question, are zinnias potentially "immortal" ? I know that commercial "fancy" named varieties of Coleus have been grown asexually for many years and many generations from cuttings. I had always supposed that because zinnias were an "annual" that they had some sort of automatic internal death mechanism to kill them in the Fall, but now I have doubts about that.

In any case, you might want to consider commercial asexual propagation techniques, like Tissue Culture. Tissue Culture is not limited by the number of cuttings that you can get from a plant, so it is potentially much more effective than taking cuttings. I will probably renew my zinnia TC experiments when I have the time.

ZM (not associated with any product or vendor mentioned or linked)
I tip my hat to you.
Last edited by ZenMan Jul 5, 2017 11:20 AM Icon for preview

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