Stopped over at Kansas City on a trip up to Iowa, thinking about BBQ and the zinnias.

I am a lifelong vegetarian so I have never eaten barbecue. But one time when I was young I got the great idea that I should apply for a job at a barbecue restaurant. It did not go well. Ha ha.

The tricotyledon's strangely-placed bud exhibits fasciation. I don't know the etiology but my guesses are something genetic related to the plan-of-three, invisible stinkbug damage, or voodoo.




The one with red edges has also changed. As it filled out the red on the edges looks like it seeped into the petals and evened out. Now both the red and yellow are closer to orange.


ZM, I tried to transfer pollen to the first plant several times three days in a row and it doesn't appear to have "taken." It was fresh pollen from the plant itself but the stigmas are still there and still looking for pollen. Any idea why?

Hi Jack,

" It was fresh pollen from the plant itself but the stigmas are still there and still looking for pollen. Any idea why? "

No idea why. But I haven't been successfull with my Haageana pollinations either. However, it has been established, contrary to my thinking, that viable zinnia seeds can develop while leaving the stigmas intact. Usually the stigma of a fertilized petal will shrivel and die within a day or two after fertilization, but not always.

When I am in a hurry to start a next generation, sometimes I use my fingers to spread the petals enough so that I can tell whether the green seed is developed or not. If it looks "ready" I will pull that petal-seed to plant it.

You might be able to develop a similar technique for determining whether your Haageana petals have developed viable green seeds. Although that will be very difficult with Haageanas, because their seeds are so small. Their green seeds are probably quite unimpressive.

" The tricotyledon's strangely-placed bud exhibits fasciation. "

Plan-of-three zinnia plants can produce blooms without fasciation.

I think the fasciation in your threesie Haageana may be just a coincidence. I know that in the movies a favorite line of the detective is "I don't believe in coincidences", but in real life coincidences do happen. I still hope to develop a 3Z tribe of zinnias, but apparently that isn't about to happen any time soon.

ZM

LizzieEllis said:Is there a way to do a search within the forum without going through 14 pages of posts? I remember reading about boron/Borax and some other topics I want to find again.

Hi Lizzle,

That was, and still is, a very good question. This NGA Site has a built-in Search tool. At the time I read your message I used it to Search for "boron" in the Annuals forum, and I got this result. (You have to click on all these square picture thumbnails to see the whole picture.)

That told me that two message threads in the Annuals forum contained references to boron and that they were Zinnia button box and It can be fun to breed your own zinnias (this thread). The date/time timestamps for the posts containing the search targets were shown, which would be a guide for finding the two posts which contained references to "boron".

However, as you said, there was going to be some going through the posts to find the matching date/times, which was going to involve some unnecessary effort, since the NGA Site "knew" which posts contained the search targets.

I requested an enhancement to the Search tool in the Site Talk forum, and Dave very helpfully made the enhancement. So now the NGA Site Search tool makes it easy to find the references to boron in the Annuals forum (or any other forum).

The process is quite easy when you "get the hang of it", so I will show it step-by-step. First of all, click on Annuals in the forums list of 100 forums. That puts you at a screen listing the current message threads in the Annuals forum, and notice a Search Forums box at the top righthand side of the screen.

Type "boron" into that box and click the Magnifying Glass button on the right side of that box. That produces this screen.

In order to restrict the search to just the Annuals forum, go to the Search only list, click on the little down arrow to drop down a list of all of the forums, and go down and click on the Annuals forum. Your screen now looks like this.

Click on the green Search button to launch the search. That produces this screen.

Notice that now on the left you have the Post # of the target posts. You can now simply click on the Post # to go to that post.

Your original question actually led to an enhancement to the NGA Site Search tool. Sometimes small causes can have large effects (thanks to Dave). If you have questions or need further clarification about this process, don't hesitate to ask.

ZM

Hello all,

Incidentally, there is the occasional "plan-of-four" zinnia.

However, I prefer the look of "plan-of-three".

ZM

ZenMan said:Hello all,

Incidentally, there is the occasional "plan-of-four" zinnia.

However, I prefer the look of "plan-of-three".

ZM

I think I have noticed that on my current tricotyledon, actually. The fourth leaf often doesn't grow as big or as well though so it gets reabsorbed. The leaf form is weird to start with.

Today it was 50º, which is tropical by Pennsylvania standards. It was all I could do not to lay on the ground and pretend spring was here. lol

This one will likely get culled. It is a uniform pale buttery yellow so far.



It looks like it has two layers of petals that want to unfold so it may be semi-double. I will hold onto it for a few more days and see what it looks like then before I decide.

Hello all,

This is a current blooming zinnia in my basement. I like its informal petal structure.

Those white objects in the background are electric cords to the fluorescent fixtures overhead.

ZM

This is entirely anecdotal, but my Zinnia haageanas seem to produce much more pollen between midnight and 3am than they do at daybreak. it is a fluke that I have noticed this because I work nights so I am naturally awake at this time. I have a observed it across several plants and several nights.

Hi Jai,

My Zinnia elegans/hybrida  blooms tend to put out pollen florets about 4 hours after "lights on" in the morning. But there is quite a bit of variation on that, which I assume is due to genetic recombinations of genes.

This is one of my current indoor blooms that has a fairly conventional zinnia close-packed petal structure.

Actually, I do not like close-packed petals for several reasons, including that they make nice hiding places for aphids and thrips and other pests. But I do like the rounded petal ends and uprolled petals, so it isn't all bad. I will probably cross it with some unconventional types.

I spent several hours outside working in the garden yesterday and the day before, because we have had freakish warm weather here. I will spend more time inside today, because a cold front came through late yesterday evening. But it was a warm day. I had the questionable honor of being bit by a mosquito in February. That's unusual for Kansas. More later.

ZM

So... my tricotyledon zinnia has never lost its stigmas. It has been in bloom for at least three weeks and I have fertilized it with a paintbrush at least 10 times. But all of the original stigmas are still there. This morning I look very carefully at each petal to make sure that every single stigma was still there, and it was.

The oldest flower is just starting to fade (with stigmas intact) and I do not know if it has been successfully fertilized or not.

Is this behavior typical of Zinnia haageana? Of tricotyledons? Or maybe this plant is infertile?

Does these kinds of persistent stigmas even remain on infertile flowers?

Hi Jai,

I don't know how and when the Haageana stigmas fade. I only just learned relatively recently that Z. violacea/hybrida stigmas can remain yellow and alive while attached to a seed in which a viable embryo has developed. Several of my Haageanas are now in bloom.


I am pollinating my Haageanas with Z. violacea/hybrida pollen, and so far I have not seen any shriveling or dying stigmas. I am designating my better Haageanas as breeders and am making repeated attempts to cross-pollinate them with larger zinnias. My Haageanas are from the commercial "Jazzy Mix" strain. So far I have not attempted to pollinate my larger zinnias with Haageana pollen, but that is on my "To Do" list. I find it difficult to identify Haageana green seeds that contain a viable embryo, because the Haageana seeds are relatively small for zinnia seeds. More later.

ZM

Thank you. I like those pictures, especially the plum-and-cream colors. Do I see a curled/pinched leaf on the first picture? Just curious because I'm dealing with the same thing...

Jai_Ganesha said:Do I see a curled/pinched leaf on the first picture? Just curious because I'm dealing with the same thing...

Hi Jai,

Yes, you do. I think it is a deficiency of one or more nutrients. You can see some distorted leaves in this recent photo of a Razzle Dazzle specimen.

I am not sure which elements are to blame. Possibly Calcium is one. More later.

ZM

Jai_Ganesha said:I like those pictures, especially the plum-and-cream colors.

Hi Jai,

This is currently my "best" dark purple with light-colored tips Jazzy Haageana zinnia.

I say it is "best" because it currently has the darkest purple color. The petal tips are a pale lemon yellow color, which is a very light yellow with a hint of green. I think that greenish hint is significant, as I will explain. I will be on the lookout for an even darker specimen. I have been saturating its little stigmas with pollen from my larger Z. violacea/Z. hybrida  breeder specimens.

I really want to get that dark purple color into my Z. hybridas.

There may be some combination of dark purple and yellow-green that would combine into a good approximation of black. Black zinnias are one of my eventual goals. It will probably take quite a while to achieve them. But the first step is to get these dark Haageanas crossed into my gene pool.

ZM

Very pretty! I like it!

I currently have a very ugly, plain, single, primary yellow zinnia...that was labeled scabious. I expected that, though.

Today on my plan-of-three plant I took apart the second oldest flower (it was further along in wilting than the oldest one) and looked for green seeds, keeping in mind that on Z. haageana they are smaller to start with. I had fertilized it by hand for more than three weeks and the stigmas never fully disappeared.

Every single seed throughout the flower was completely empty and non-viable. On a white sheet of paper I very carefully used tweezers and an X-Acto knife to look inside.

I am 99% sure that for whatever reason this plant is an infertile hybrid and is not setting seed.

In some sense that would explain several things, including the weird leaf pattern, the flowers sprouting from weird places, the fact that this plant is much taller than all of the others, and the fact that it has had a plan-of-three since it sprouted.

I am going to wait and try on a couple of more flowers just in case, but this sure feels pretty anti-climactic. Womp, womp.

Jai_Ganesha said:I am 99% sure that for whatever reason this plant is an infertile hybrid and is not setting seed.
I am going to wait and try on a couple of more flowers just in case, but this sure feels pretty anti-climactic.

Hi Jai,

Do its blooms have pollen florets? If so, you could try crossing its pollen with other Haageanas and even Violaceas, if you happen to have any in bloom. Incidentally, how tall is its plant?

I was impressed at how small the Jazzy Mixed seeds were when I was planting them. As small as the seeds were, the embryos inside would have had to be almost microscopic. I suggest a mass planting (mass burial) of the "infertile" seeds in a pot, in case one or more of them turns out to be viable.

Just in order to "keep the thing going" you might try taking a few cuttings from the threesie plant. I have successfully propagated zinnias from cuttings, and even taken cuttings from the cutting plants after they got bushy. The "secret" to growing zinnias from cuttings is Physan 20, which keeps bacteria from attacking the cutting through the open wound.

Also, have you considered Tissue Culture as a means of zinnia micropropagation? Is that something you might be interested in?

This is one of my current blooms that I have designated as a "breeder".

Its petals are narrow and partially uprolled and its leaves are narrow and pointed. Something genetic going on there. So far I haven't gotten any viable green seeds from it, but I have just now started pollinating its bloom. But I do have a flat of second generation green seeds from other breeders planted. So far none have germinated, but it has been only a couple of days.

Don't give up on your plan-of-three. I have noted significant differences from one zinnia branch to another. A side branch might put out viable seeds. And remember, Haageana seeds are tiny and their embryos are smaller yet.

ZM

These are what present themselves as "scabiosa" zinnias.




I knew this would happen but I am still disappointed! Haha.

Hi Jai,

Well, those are clearly not scabiosa flowered, but they are different. I think the best strategy for scabious zinnias is to plant a lot of commercial scabious seed outdoors. That gives you a good chance of finding at least a few good ones. I plan to do that this Spring. Also, when you grow a lot of zinnias, that gives you a better chance of finding a good mutant. This is one of my current zinnia blooms that was derived from a mutant.

It's not very good, but it is different, and if I save a lot of seed from it and plant them outdoors, there is a chance that a few of them might be significantly better than it is. More later. I think I will do some long overdue indoor culling tomorrow.

ZM