I'm not sure how that would work if it were to fall into the street. I'm also afraid of it falling on a car as they drive by.

That is all interesting. I'm not sure how that works, considering it's on someone's property. And we know how the government tends to shift blame when things do happen.

Yeah, someone was kind enough to hit her and leave her in the road for me to finish her off. No idea why this highway is pitch black in certain places, but I didn't see her until it was too late.

Oh my!

Well I hope I did this right of course I just had to cut my finger with the Xacto knife and being old and thin skinned I bled for about 10minutes. So, I should let these all sit for about a week then pot. I believe it was Baja or AG who said to make a little mound and just set them on top? Can they go into separate 3" nursery pots and then be moved later when they outgrow those? Suggestions are welcome.

Looks good! Use a pot that's a little wider than the rosette for starters. I don't use pots smaller than 4" but whatever you prefer. You could put all the smaller ones together in a flat for now and deal with them individually later.

Try to clear the dead leaves off the stem below each rosette. Ideally leave that stem squeaky clean, for the health of the plant.

Yes...very interesting. Did some poking around and research on various AZ government and legal websites for info and to satisfy my own curiosity.
Here's what I found. (If anyone has more recent info past 2010 please share).

Here in AZ it is funny but not funny really. Again really bad sitcom material. It is a case of T.S. when someone's monster plant falls on your property or possessions. What's worse is you have to pick up the tab for it!

Legally if a neighbor's Saguaro falls on your land because of an 'Act of God' you're responsible because an 'Act of God' can neither be predicted nor the direction of the plant's fall predetermined. (Uh...I beg to differ since we live in a desert, know botanical facts, have eyes and laws of gravity...but I digress).

If the Saguaro didn't split or break and is in good condition you can call a cactus removal service. They'll take it and charge the neighbor for the removal and they will replant it for free. YOU still have to pay the transport fee.

Less you mistake this for a good deal you do the math. A 20' Saguaro with 10-20 arms requires a 4-6 man crew, a large crane, a certified professional crane operator, a flat bed truck and liability insurance because you are transporting approximately 16,000 pounds of unevenly distributed weight!

Yep. Neighbor is taking the majority of the hit but you are by no means getting off cheap! (Also go back and take a look at my friend. He probably tops 30 feet considering he is taller than the power lines--add some serious bucks per additional foot over 20 feet in size!!!)

As for your personal property damage---too bad. If your neighbor knows the law you're up the creek without a paddle because they're off the hook and not responsible for random 'Acts of God' despite the fact they commit acts of stupidity every day.

If your neighbor is a somewhat decent human being, does not know the law or ... ahem, remains uninformed of the law you can ask them to pay for half of the damages to your property and the removal and just may be lucky enough to get it from them. If not it is your financial headache. (Keep in mind AZ's hand gun laws are liberal but penalties for brandishing a weapon in public and indiscriminate use of a fire arm resulting in homicide are not. )

The only 'legal loophole' to get you off the hook that I could find was providing you had the presence of mind to c.y.a. a year or so prior and call the Dept. of Agriculture and/or Bureau of Land Mgmt. and say you want this thing relocated. You can make a request for cacti relocation regardless of it being your cacti or someone else's. Then it is on record you made a request of this potential mishap.

This 'loop hole' may let you off the hook for the transport costs but NOT the property destruction you incurred.

Now three interesting things at this point when it comes to laws and government shuffling responsibility around.

1.) AZ, as a public land state, says you have the right to do what you want on your property. Major restrictions apply to Saguaros because damaging, harming or cutting them or cutting them down is a felony. You will face fines and/or felony criminal damage charges. So there's a catch already. It is on your land. You own it sort of BUT don't own it because it is protected and the government won't let you do anything about or with it.

As a 'landowner' you are required to notify the Dept. of Agriculture and/or the Bureau of Land Mgmt. so they can put a tag on it and give you a permit (costs you $8.00 :rolleyes:) if you want it removed. This also applies to Saguaros and a variety of other cacti on or not on your property!

You are at liberty to sell the plant but first you must get that permit and tag. Some nurseries will buy and relocate it for you but if you sell it privately it is often a deal worked out between buyer and seller as to who will. (See above in regards to costs or moving that 20' plant! Yeah...good luck on that one.)

If the plant isn't damaged, broken or split they'll remove it for you but...

2.) Now if a nursery, park or government office wants to remove this thing because yes....you got your permit and tag, you know they're not going to be in a great big hurry to get on out there. You're going to have this thing in/on/around your property for quite awhile as you can't 'harm', 'cut' or 'damage' a protected plant.

Then to make matters worse they 'grade' the plant to see if it is worth their time, effort and money to relocate, replant and preserve. It gets graded.
-Priority grade is based on health as excellent with no pests, young enough to have a long life span and continue to grow for many years, and to survive. It has to have good form that represents the species and have minor damage.
----Medium grade means the plant doesn't meet high standards but the damage is minor and it has no pests.
----Low grade and not a priority or worth their time means it is in poor health, it is too old and won't have a long life span and/or its form and characteristics are damaged. Sadly this is most of the oldest Saguaros when you think about it. (My friend above with the broken arm, bird holes, and a life span that is winding down would fall into this category. )

Even the good and medium grades have a transplantability factor that is required before they are taken. It boils down to can they tag it, bag it and drag it away. The size and dimensions have to be appropriate to be met for salvage and transport and it has to be able to be excavated with the root ball in tact. (Now think about the size of these things and their roots!)

Only positive is the relocation sites take all factors into account such as utility lines, homes, land slopes and grades, etc. before giving them a new home.

3.) So now we have another conundrum the law of the land just put you in. What to do about that 150 year old monster Saguaro that is sprawled out across half of your house's roof and front yard?

You guessed it! You still have to call the Dept. of Agriculture to o.k. the removal, tag it, pay for the permit and of course you pay (or you and your neighbor split) the cost of the labor, time, equipment and for them hauling it away.

Ready to scream yet? But wait.....there's more!
See #1) Remember that thing about harming and damaging a Saguaro? Yeah. Well you now have a monster plant that crashed that nobody wants, or wants to be bothered with BUT you are not supposed to harm even though it harmed your property and your relationship with the neighbor/s. You're also clueless on how to get rid of it becoming an act of Congress, without getting into trouble, and not going bankrupt.

So.....a lot of people take a chain saw to these things and don't bother telling anyone or reporting it if they live out in a remote place. They also hope nobody reports them for what they're doing. A few good people do replant the arms but still...see the size of those arms on a 150-200 year old plant? Consider the weight? Not an easy task.

So when it comes down to a buyer beware situation with regards to your house and property and neighbors. Becareful of what you wish for because you just may get it when it comes to owning or living near a rare species. And monster plants in your yard can be hazardous to your wallet.

Lengthy post so I'll do a second in regards to the power company. Some wonderful facts there.

**** If anyone has updates on the laws or changes after 2010 please share.

Oh my. I know here, if your neighbor has a dead tree and it falls on your house, the insurance won't cover the damage because it was dead. But, it wasn't your tree...

O.K. Saguaros and the power company/ies.

Best I could find was a 2009 article written by a Ryan Randazzo. Haven't seen anything more current. Again if anyone has more current info and/or corrections please chime in.

According to this article, our two wonderful power companies APS (AZ Public Co.) sub contracts under SRP (Salt River Project). In 2009 APS walked back their policy to destroy thousands of Saguaro under high voltage power lines. There had been a YouTube video Saguaros being cut down and then using lawn mowers to chop them up into mulch.

Due to a public outrage (rightful in my opinion) they decided to start charging a line maintenance fee to spare 2/3rds of these cacti. Instead they are now 'topping' them or cutting the arms off of plants that fall over their lines or don't give a 22' foot clearance in regards to their lines.

Originally APS balked at this because they wanted to go the cheap rout of just destroying and mulching these plants rather than the escalated cost of pruning and maintaining each one individually. They had been cutting arms off of the cacti or destroying them if they were within 50 feet of high voltage lines.

Now they are proposing to relocate 10 foot or shorter Saguaros and destroy only those of 22 feet of the power lines. They will trim the tops but ONLY IF local agencies agree to this. They do cut plants that can fall over on or grow over power lines causing black outs.

S.R.P. is better in this regards. Their policy is to trim the arms and/or top in a very sterile and procedural way if the plant is within 28 feet of the high voltage lines. They will transport 1 small Saguaro for every 10 trimmed on Forest Service Land. They replant the trimmed arms. They were recognized by the Arbor Day Foundation for this.

All of this was from an article dated 2009. If anyone knows something more current please feel free to correct or amend.

As it stands, it looks like I'll be keeping my wise, ancient old gentle Saguaro friend's whereabouts a secret. He and I will be on the down low so nobody can get at him. I think he looks fabulous for his age and without that hair cut!

Baja_Costero said:Looks good! Use a pot that's a little wider than the rosette for starters. I don't use pots smaller than 4" but whatever you prefer. You could put all the smaller ones together in a flat for now and deal with them individually later.

Try to clear the dead leaves off the stem below each rosette. Ideally leave that stem squeaky clean, for the health of the plant.

Thanks Baja, I've got some larger pots somewhere just need to find them. Good idea on the smaller ones I'll do that. If I recall you said to wait about a week before I pot them then wait another week before watering is that correct? When I water the ones on the flats would it be better to water from the bottom? I've got one that I used for my Adenium seeds that I drilled small holes in and had it sitting inside another drawing up water that way. I'll go out tomorrow and make sure I've got all the dead leaves off.

Thanks for the help

Oh my is right!

Who would have imagined such things would be a problem when it comes to property and a lack of common sense would prevail over doing what is appropriate and right in the circumstances.

Where does one go to reasonably take care of such situations?
1.) Approach the neighbor and hope they are not apathetic, bored, rude or lazy and actually give a hoot about you, your property and theirs?
2.) The police?
3.) Land Bureau, Dept. of Ag, Dept. of Parks and Recreation? City zoning and ordinance and property line rules?
4.) H.O.A. if you have one?
5.) Have a talk with your insurance company and see what you can do legally?
6.) Call the realtor and beat happy feet a.s.a.p. and let it be the new owner's problem?

I'm out of ideas. I would be terribly perplexed on how to deal with stuff like this as so far in my life I haven't.

I tell you what...it will indeed be interesting to see what happens when those century plants keel over. No matter where they land I have the distinct impression those people are going to have a mess on their hands and with their wallets in more way than one.

Chris, your timing on the water sounds good. You can bottom water if you want but it's easier to do it from above. Once you get everybody set in there you can lay down a light layer of pumice or whatever as top dressing in between the rosettes, and that serves as an excellent suit of armor against the effects of falling water.

You will see the cuttings look sadder for a while and then after maybe 3 or 4 weeks there will be a turnaround when they get going again. It's pretty apparent based on how the rosette looks. If you put them in individual pots, you can assume that when the size of the rosette is equal to the size of the pot, it is being constrained and will not be likely to grow much more.

Thanks Baja, appreciate it. Looking forward to getting them potted but I'm not going to rush it.

That was some very welcome rain all the day yesterday. Before the rain a few of my Echinopsis and Trichocereus hybrids and a couple of other cacti put out some end of Summer, celebrate the Fall flowers:

Echinopsis x 'Maria Piazza' and E. x 'Edwardian Lady':


Echinopsis x 'K-T Event' and E. x 'Fangri-La':


Echinopsis x 'Buttercup' and Trichocereus x 'Volcanic Sunset':


Echinopsis x 'Andrae' and E. x 'Los Angeles':


Trichocereus x 'First Light' and Mammillaria grahamii:


and Coryphantha macromeris:

Fantastic flowers!

What a sight and a collection.

We'll see if the mild temps and pleasant sunshine will get my kids inspired to bloom soon. At least things are looking greener thanks to the unexpected rain yesterday.

How's the Agave pup removal going? Almost done?

chris1948 said:Well I hope I did this right of course I just had to cut my finger with the Xacto knife and being old and thin skinned I bled for about 10minutes. So, I should let these all sit for about a week then pot. I believe it was Baja or AG who said to make a little mound and just set them on top? Can they go into separate 3" nursery pots and then be moved later when they outgrow those? Suggestions are welcome.

I would go with 4" pots or larger myself, they fill out very fast.

Thanks Steve, I'll see how many I can dig up.

I got a really nice Ric Rac Cactus at a plant sale. Does anyone have any advice or stories to share with me? I've never grown one before.

I got some cuttings last fall. It was an easy care plant this summer. It's in a hanging basket in a light, porous mix. It appears to just be finishing a 3rd round of new growth. It hasn't been fussed over, so I'd call its care at this point 'benign neglect' . My growing experience with it is limited at this point, but a preliminary evaluation indicates it won't be a fussy plant to grow. No bug problems have shown up and it grows in a bright shade area under an oak tree. No fertilizer give this growing season. FWIW.

Thanks Donald! I understand that it's a night bloomer also. More late nights to look forward to.

My Oxapetulm should be opening its two buds any time now. I check it every night at 10 PM.

I apologize for the off topic question in advance.

@needrain, what kind of cow is that in your picture? Not that I know much about cows, but my Grandfather raises "long horns" in KS. He tells me he doesn't go anywhere near them, not that I blame him (not that a pushing 80 year old should be anywhere near them anyway ).

Hamwild said:I apologize for the off topic question in advance.

@needrain, what kind of cow is that in your picture? Not that I know much about cows, but my Grandfather raises "long horns" in KS. He tells me he doesn't go anywhere near them, not that I blame him (not that a pushing 80 year old should be anywhere near them anyway ).

I'm pushing 70 yoa, but the horns don't worry me. It all has to do with the natural disposition of the animal. In this case that's a Hereford cow named Lottery and the Hereford breed is known for having a generally calm disposition. That is usually true, but they still weigh a lot more than I do .

needrain said:

I'm pushing 70 yoa, but the horns don't worry me. It all has to do with the natural disposition of the animal. In this case that's a Hereford cow named Lottery and the Hereford breed is known for having a generally calm disposition. That is usually true, but they still weigh a lot more than I do .

Oh, I did not mean any offense about your age, I am sure you know how to handle/read your animals; I did not intend it to come across that way if it did. My Grandfather isn't as nimble as he used to be (and having had back surgery, that doesn't help).

Oh I see. I think the most I've seen around "these parts" are "dairy cows" and Angus. They are beautiful animals but definitely larger than I'm comfortable being around.