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Jan 10, 2016 8:38 AM CST
Name: Ken Ramsey
Vero Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
Bromeliad Vegetable Grower Region: United States of America Tropicals Plumerias Orchids
Region: Mississippi Master Gardener: Mississippi Hummingbirder Cat Lover Composter Seller of Garden Stuff
OK, I will wait for @Rainbow to chime in. Thanks, Rick.
drdawg (Dr. Kenneth Ramsey)

The reason it's so hard to lose weight when you get up in age is because your body and your fat have become good friends.
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Jan 10, 2016 8:55 AM CST
Name: KadieD
Oceania, Mariana Islands (Zone 11b)
Wet Tropical AHS Zone 12
Adeniums Tropicals Morning Glories Container Gardener Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1
Dog Lover Cat Lover Bee Lover Vegetable Grower Butterflies Permaculture
I had recommended to @Crissy earlier in this thread to prune down the etiolated stem. Now I am having second thoughts about it. I was doing an experiment on my red obesum seedlings...I did not nip off any stems. Some trees ramified on their own, some did not ramify. Here is a picture of those trees that did not ramify and I allowed the stem to grow out...I was planning to use the trees as root stock for grafting and didn't want lateral branches.
Thumb of 2016-01-10/Rainbow/8ec0de
Sep. 21, 2015

Well, lateral branches did eventually pop up on the caudex while the main stem was preparing to bud.
Thumb of 2016-01-10/Rainbow/211bca
Thumb of 2016-01-10/Rainbow/f9ee83
Jan. 9, 2016
These will not be root stock plants any more...I plan to cut the main stem out and keep the lateral branches.
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Jan 10, 2016 8:58 AM CST
Name: KadieD
Oceania, Mariana Islands (Zone 11b)
Wet Tropical AHS Zone 12
Adeniums Tropicals Morning Glories Container Gardener Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1
Dog Lover Cat Lover Bee Lover Vegetable Grower Butterflies Permaculture
Ken, I have found that the longer and thicker the branch cutting is, the better it will survive and grow.
Last edited by Rainbow Jan 10, 2016 9:14 AM Icon for preview
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Jan 10, 2016 9:29 AM CST
Name: Rick
Vancouver Island, Canada (Zone 8a)
Adeniums Seed Starter Plumerias Peonies Native Plants and Wildflowers Hibiscus
Dog Lover Container Gardener Region: Canadian Cactus and Succulents Brugmansias Tropicals
Some trees most definitely will ramify later on, but this is where it becomes a personal preference. If you have a large number of seedlings and/or juveniles then it gives more room for experimentation.
Either way, whether the tree is 8mths old or 8 years old, pruning can be done with no ill effects. A younger tree's pruning site will become unnoticeable sooner.
Pruning will and does induce more blooms, due to more branching from pruning.

A friend has a really nice tree that is about 2 1/2' tall with a nice group of branches at the top. It is a standard type or tower as some may call it.

What I see with Crissy's tree, is lack of stability. Due to longer grow and a stem that cannot support the upper half. Realizing that the tree was lacking water originally is a factor previously, but now erect, rejuvenated by water uptake. It still shows a lack of stability. More sunlight could help with this.

Crissy, I make these comments only as constructive criticism. This is your tree and what ever you like is up to you.

Rick
"Many times a day I realize how much my own outer and inner life is built upon the labors of my fellow men, both living and dead, and how earnestly I must exert myself in order to give in return as much as I received"
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Jan 10, 2016 11:25 AM CST
Name: KadieD
Oceania, Mariana Islands (Zone 11b)
Wet Tropical AHS Zone 12
Adeniums Tropicals Morning Glories Container Gardener Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1
Dog Lover Cat Lover Bee Lover Vegetable Grower Butterflies Permaculture
crissy said:It was a gift from a friend who's got a big one.


@crissy
Would you ask your friend what they do and when as far as pruning their tree? Being that you live in a warm tropical climate as I do, perhaps I could learn something new from your friend. I'm all ears!
Last edited by Rainbow Jan 10, 2016 11:40 AM Icon for preview
Avatar for crissy
Jan 13, 2016 7:36 PM CST
Thread OP
Townsville QLD (Australia)
My friend doesnt prune his trees but they look pretty good to me. Imtoo scared to prune mine, specially the little one. Where do I start?
Thumb of 2016-01-14/crissy/7e39c0
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Jan 13, 2016 8:19 PM CST
Name: KadieD
Oceania, Mariana Islands (Zone 11b)
Wet Tropical AHS Zone 12
Adeniums Tropicals Morning Glories Container Gardener Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1
Dog Lover Cat Lover Bee Lover Vegetable Grower Butterflies Permaculture
crissy said:
Thumb of 2016-01-10/crissy/da5cb8

Crissy, if it were a wee 2 month old seedling I would nip the tip at transplanting as seedlings that young recuperate very quickly. But your tree looks to be about 4 months old now. You transplanted it last weekend, so I would wait 2 months to give the roots a chance to recuperate and grow before pruning.

Cutting off the main branch now will disrupt the symbiotic processes that are needed between main plant and roots. In other words (without going into the science of it), the stem and leaves aid with the development of the roots. The caudex is still undeveloped fully so will not have stored energy to provide aid in the process. Is this making any sense?
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Jan 13, 2016 9:22 PM CST
Name: KadieD
Oceania, Mariana Islands (Zone 11b)
Wet Tropical AHS Zone 12
Adeniums Tropicals Morning Glories Container Gardener Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1
Dog Lover Cat Lover Bee Lover Vegetable Grower Butterflies Permaculture
@crissy
At the very least, you could make a small nip at the tip to arrest upward growth for now.
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Jan 13, 2016 10:15 PM CST
Name: Rick
Vancouver Island, Canada (Zone 8a)
Adeniums Seed Starter Plumerias Peonies Native Plants and Wildflowers Hibiscus
Dog Lover Container Gardener Region: Canadian Cactus and Succulents Brugmansias Tropicals
You should prune a few months prior to going into your fall in Australia. You want to get some new growth started before the tree slows down for winter. Although your winter is unlike mine, they still slow with growth there.
Rick
"Many times a day I realize how much my own outer and inner life is built upon the labors of my fellow men, both living and dead, and how earnestly I must exert myself in order to give in return as much as I received"
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Jan 13, 2016 10:55 PM CST
Name: KadieD
Oceania, Mariana Islands (Zone 11b)
Wet Tropical AHS Zone 12
Adeniums Tropicals Morning Glories Container Gardener Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1
Dog Lover Cat Lover Bee Lover Vegetable Grower Butterflies Permaculture
Townsville, Australia has a zone of USDA 11a and heat zone of AHS 10. Enter Townsville, Australia in the search box of this page:
http://www.plantsdb.gr/en/gene...
I have a USDA zone of 11b and AHS 12 zone.
Avatar for crissy
Jan 14, 2016 7:34 PM CST
Thread OP
Townsville QLD (Australia)
Yes, it doesn't get very cold here at all. The coldest temperature in winter in the middle of the night is still over 10-15°C, but if u drive not far outside Townsville and it goes down to 7°C. In any case it's only really a few days a year. Daytime is more like 25°. I looked up the zones in Australia, and apparently I'm on 11b. Smiling
Avatar for crissy
Jan 14, 2016 7:37 PM CST
Thread OP
Townsville QLD (Australia)
Yeah, my plant must be a few months old, at least 6. It seems to like its new pot, so I guess I'll wait a bit before pruning. Smiling Thank You!
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Jan 14, 2016 8:38 PM CST
Name: KadieD
Oceania, Mariana Islands (Zone 11b)
Wet Tropical AHS Zone 12
Adeniums Tropicals Morning Glories Container Gardener Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1
Dog Lover Cat Lover Bee Lover Vegetable Grower Butterflies Permaculture
In the meantime, Crissy, perhaps you might like to grow adeniums from seed yourself. It is my understanding that there is a lot of red tape and expense to import seeds and plants into Australia. Perhaps @RCanada could introduce you to someone he knows there that you could acquire seeds from?
Last edited by Rainbow Jan 14, 2016 8:42 PM Icon for preview
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Jan 14, 2016 9:33 PM CST
Name: Rick
Vancouver Island, Canada (Zone 8a)
Adeniums Seed Starter Plumerias Peonies Native Plants and Wildflowers Hibiscus
Dog Lover Container Gardener Region: Canadian Cactus and Succulents Brugmansias Tropicals
Kadie,
From what I have been told from friends in Australia. They cannot bring in Adeniums trees into Australia. They can bring in seeds of Adeniums.
When seeds are sent to them, the Genus, species & number of seeds has to be clearly marked on the declaration slip attached to the package.
Rick
"Many times a day I realize how much my own outer and inner life is built upon the labors of my fellow men, both living and dead, and how earnestly I must exert myself in order to give in return as much as I received"
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Jan 15, 2016 12:12 AM CST
Name: KadieD
Oceania, Mariana Islands (Zone 11b)
Wet Tropical AHS Zone 12
Adeniums Tropicals Morning Glories Container Gardener Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1
Dog Lover Cat Lover Bee Lover Vegetable Grower Butterflies Permaculture
Thanks, Rick, for the clarification. Smiling

@Crissy, here's Rinoa's catalog. She is a reputable source for seeds. Or you could go on ebay and check out Ko's, among others.
http://orient-adenium.wix.com/...
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Jan 16, 2016 8:38 AM CST
Name: Rick
Vancouver Island, Canada (Zone 8a)
Adeniums Seed Starter Plumerias Peonies Native Plants and Wildflowers Hibiscus
Dog Lover Container Gardener Region: Canadian Cactus and Succulents Brugmansias Tropicals
Crissy,
There is a very special lady in Australia and she has always been a source of support and great help. She grows Adeniums and I thought you might enjoying viewing her site.

www.sandysadeniums.com

Cheryl a wonderful lady, also a tremendous help and wealth of knowledge. She has
Encue Adeniums, lives in Bluewater or Townsville?

I realize that Australia is large country and she may not be close by.

Rick
"Many times a day I realize how much my own outer and inner life is built upon the labors of my fellow men, both living and dead, and how earnestly I must exert myself in order to give in return as much as I received"
Last edited by RCanada Jan 16, 2016 8:45 AM Icon for preview
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Jan 16, 2016 11:02 AM CST
Name: Jean
Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier The WITWIT Badge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages
Bluewater is about 17 miles from Townsville, Rick.
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Jan 17, 2016 11:44 AM CST
Name: Ron
Naples, Florida (Zone 10a)
Region: Florida Hummingbirder Butterflies Adeniums Bromeliad Hibiscus
Foliage Fan Plant and/or Seed Trader Xeriscape Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1 Plant Identifier
Thanks @Rainbow for calling my attention to this thread. I haven't been on ATP much the past few months, so I'm way behind on threads.

There are a couple points I'd like to chime in on.

First is the notion of sunburn on a newly exposed caudex. Maybe this is an issue in hot, dry desert climates. But here in Florida, it appears not to be a consideration. Anyone that has been in central/southern Florida during summer (actually, most of the year) can attest that our sun exposure is quite intense. I have never protected the caudexes [caudices, if you prefer] on my Adeniums, mature or juvie, when replanting and exposing more caudex. It has never been an issue. The freshly exposed pale skin greens up over the next couple weeks.

This, of course, is not to say you can take a plant out of the shade and place it in full direct sun. Tender, shade-grown leaves are likely to burn.

As for pruning, I have a couple of thoughts.

First off, I see no reason to wait, especially if doing a major trim. Ideally the best time to trim a tree or shrub is a few days before transplanting to allow the cut ends to heal before the transplant, but I usually do this on the same day, as I generally have too many projects going on to plan ahead on these minor details. This is true for most any plant. Newly disturbed roots are inefficient at transporting water and nutrients and may not be able to adequately support the full canopy for a while. How often have you transplanted something and it being wilty over the next few days? So =now= might be an excellent time to prune.

Secondly, is where to prune. YMMV as plant genetics for propensity to branching of the particular specimen are probably quite significant here. I only can express my thoughts as to where I would prune if the decision was mine.

I pruned back a number of yearling seed-grown Adeniums this past year. I learned a lot. But overall, if I could go back and do it over again, I would prune all the well-developoed young plants, not just about half of them. I would prune close to the caudex, never part way up the stem.

I say this because all I pruned back close to the caudex turned into nicer plants. Of those I cut the stem ~ in half, some produced only one new shoot at the tip of the remaining stem, while others (probably those already with the beginnings of side shoots) did develop more side stems. However, the tall central stem looked out of place among the smaller side shoots, and the side shoots grew much more slowly than those of plants more heavily pruned, apparently their growth still being inhibited by the large central stem.

This, of course, is personal preference, as not everyone likes the same look.

The cut stem easily becomes a new plant. If I don't use rooting powder on the cut end, I let the cut heal/callous before planting into moist soil. If I =do= use rooting powder (my SOP these days), I may let the powdered stem heal first, or I may immediately stick it in the soil. The difference depends on how important the cutting is to me. If highly important, I may wait a couple days before planting. However, the risk in waiting is in forgetting.

Any more, the determining factor is usually the age of the stem. In my experience, if the stem is woody, the rooting powder prevents rot, and the cutting proceeds to root and grow. If the stem is tender and succulent, some live but some rot if planted immediately. That said, I once had a new, 3/4" tall seedling pulled and bitten in half by a bird, who apparently then decided the plant was not edible. I knew the seedling was lost, but on a whim I stuck the cut end of the top in Rootone powder and planted immediately back into the community seedling pot. Surprisingly, it lived.

Just my thoughts, my 2¢ worth. I have a background in biology and may have occasional insights, but I am certainly no Adenium (or any other plant) expert. So my best advice is to consider my thoughts if you wish, and the thoughts and experiences of others as well, then make your own decision.

Ron
[He] decided that if a few quiet beers wouldn't allow him to see things in a different light, then a few more probably would. - Terry Pratchett
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Jan 17, 2016 11:54 AM CST
Name: Ken Ramsey
Vero Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
Bromeliad Vegetable Grower Region: United States of America Tropicals Plumerias Orchids
Region: Mississippi Master Gardener: Mississippi Hummingbirder Cat Lover Composter Seller of Garden Stuff
Thanks for the information, @rattlebox.

You sure have a lot more experience than I, since I've only had my 18 plants since germinating those seeds in June and potting them up in July, 2015.

At what point do you cut the tops off. I have one that is now 10" tall but none of the other are more than 6" tall. Most of mine are more like 4" tall. When you root those cuttings (and it sounds like you allow them to callous, like I do with plumeria), do you remove most of the leaves before rooting them?

By the way, I would never even attempt to root a plumeria cutting this time of year. I would wait until March at the soonest. Does that hold true with adenium? A plumeria cutting can be stored for several, even many months, and it will still root. I don't know about storing adenium cuttings.
drdawg (Dr. Kenneth Ramsey)

The reason it's so hard to lose weight when you get up in age is because your body and your fat have become good friends.
Image
Jan 17, 2016 12:18 PM CST
Name: KadieD
Oceania, Mariana Islands (Zone 11b)
Wet Tropical AHS Zone 12
Adeniums Tropicals Morning Glories Container Gardener Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1
Dog Lover Cat Lover Bee Lover Vegetable Grower Butterflies Permaculture
@rattlebox
Ron, thank you so very much for taking the time to read through this thread that I referred to you. And thank you so very, very much for sharing your experiences, thoughts, and insights. As usual, you have given enlightening and valuable information.

I have cut terminal tips on many of my two-month old plants as needed at the same time as transplanting to their own pots. I had thought that it would be a different matter for older newly transplanted seedlings. So I now stand corrected regards pruning time. I tip my hat to you.

@crissy
Last edited by Rainbow Jan 17, 2016 12:29 PM Icon for preview

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