So I've been keeping about 1 inch of pine needles as mulch for my potted seedlings. As they sprout should this be a concern? Some are starting to come up in the photo below. Should I remove some of the pine needles, all of them? They're not greenhoused so I don't know if there's a great chance of loss if a big freeze comes. They survived the 8 degree temps, but weren't showing like now. Suggestions please





They're lacking color only because not getting light and needles were pressing them down.

I don't know what to tell you, I don't start mine outside. I have been putting them in a window in the basement where the temps are about 55 degrees at the coldest. I would think that if they are coming up in your climate that they should be able to survive it. I'd take away the mulch once they start sprouting and let them get sun. Maybe cover them if you have a really cold night?

You can push the needles aside if you wish. We wait until spring.

I ended up removing the needles for now. The seedlings perked right up from the sun today. If it freezes I'll mulch again then. For now, they're only protected by chicken wire and fully exposed.

I still have alot of reading to do, but are there(bearded) types that won't cross with each other. Example, MTB X BB?

Can bearded irises crossed from different class grow into something not technically classified? Like a attribute that doesn't fit a class's description(s)?

I see some catalog descriptions mentioning one being too tall for SDB, but fit closest to that group, or a little short for an IB, etc.

Bearded iris classes starting with MDB and ending with TB from shortest to tallest all fit into one of the class categories. The categories not only take height into account but the characteristics of the iris.

~MDB under 8 inches
~SDB 8 -16 inches
~MTB, IB, and BB are 16 - 27.5 but differ in flower size, stalk size and number of blooms per stalk. The MTB is recognizable to me mostly because of its small stem that rises well above the foliage with smallish blooms. IB's sometimes look like tall SDB's and BB's grow much like a TB but just do not have the height.
~TB 27.5 and up.

I have read that most IB are infertile both ways and that to get an IB you must cross a small iris with a tall one.

This is just off the top of my head and anyone with more knowledge please jump in. I guess my point is that if you cross a bearded iris with a bearded iris you are going to get one that fits into the established classes. That being said, Gabe, come up with something new...... then share with Granny.

In theory, bearded irises of any class could be crossed with each other and produce viable seeds. In practice, individual cultivars vary greatly in terms of fertility and compatibility with other irises. The only way to know for sure is to try (although most IB's are infertile, so working with them is likely to be frustrating, if you want to breed IBs look for those that have Iris aphylla in their parentage).

Yes, it is easily possible to breed seedlings that don't really fit any class.

Keep in mind that modern garden irises are the result of crossing many different wild species and genetic manipulation through the creation of tetraploid and amphidiploid plants. Iris genetics are complicated to say the least.

Thanks, Kent.

Thank you Neal, Bonnie, and Kent

Thanks, to Neal, Bonnie and Kent! And to Gabe for asking good questions!

Many MTB are diploids, some of the newer ones are tetraploids & would cross With the tet BBs (48 c). TB are 48 c while most IB are $$ which is why they can be infertile. You have to look at individual plants if you wish to cross between classes.

Thanks Kent, Neal and Bonnie I have only ever made one cross using an IB and it yielded 15 seeds of which 9 germinated.

i know i'm slow to understand some things, but i have been trying to unravel the genetics for the 'prince of earl'. what don't understand i guess, are the duplications in the parents several crosses back in the unnamed seedling cross.....i think that is the pod parent? wait, is the pod parent listed first? or is the pollen parent listed first?

anyway, i got lost on the second set of parenthesis of the parent listed second because it looked to me that two generations back, it looked as tho' it was both the pollen parent and the pod parent? of the seedling.

If an iris parent is both the pollen and pod parent it simply means it was crossed with itself. In other words pollen from one bloom was used on the other blooms on the same plant and pods developed. I have read the pedigree of some irises where it states that one parent is 'unknown, probably self'. Possibly it was an unplanned pod caused by insect pollination.

my i pad keeps locking up and being problematic.....also my posts sometimes are posted twice, when i know i've only hit the 'finshed' button once. 😁

The pod parent of 'Prince of Earl' is 'Earl of Essex' The pollen parent is an unnamed seedling that itself is a product of multiple generations of unnamed seedlings. I don't see anywhere in the parentage where he used the same plant as both the pod and pollen parent. He did use two seedlings, (Preamble x Lalitha Mallette) and (Rococo x Royal Band) twice each. But, that was spread over what was probably 10+ years of hybridizing.

thank you kent. your explanation is helping me to unravel the genetics behind the plant, and helping me to figure out if the pod parent is determining size of plant, and it's shape. or if the pollen plant is contributing to it's color and veining.

is the ruffling and bubble form coming from the pod or pollen parent?

Both.

It's unlikely that a pod parent would always determine one set of characteristics, while the pollen parent determines another set. Instead, each characteristic you see in a seedling is the result of the interplay of the DNA it received from both parents.

I doubt it matters much (in a general sense at least, I'm sure it matters in specific cases) which plant is the pod parent and which is the pollen parent. Hybridizers make reciprocal crosses now and then and get basically similar plants out of them. Uncle Charlie and Lady of Leoness are an example of that. For Lady of Leoness, Silverado was the pod parent and Honky Tonk Blues was the pollen parent. For Uncle Charlie, it was the opposite.



I grew both of them in my garden and could hardly tell them apart. Certainly, they are more similar to each other than many true siblings are.

Daphne, I purchased 'Alessandra's Gift' last year and noticed that its parent was 'Millenium Falcon' by self. It will be fun to see how they look this spring. strange La Niña winter