Oh---and, YES! Now there are very few short scapes in my garden.

We have a fire pit and I do something similar with the leftover ash and charcoal bits

Oh! And no short scapes on established plants. Newbies- eh, they're new..

I'm replying to Greg @Sscape

Thanks for taking the time to reply Greg! And I see your following post saying "Yes, the short scapes problem is still alleviated". Great!

I've removed the "quote box" from Greg's post so I can insert my replies and questions.
Quotes of his comments start and end with double arrows << >>

<<Hey Pat,
I still do the high Nitrogen fertilizer regimen >>

In your May 17, 2016 post, you said you found a 30-0–17 lawn fertilizer at TSC (Tractor Supply Co). Did you continue using that? At 17%, that's higher in potassium than most lawn fertilizers which usually run 4-6%. That's of some interest in the Alabama garden because there is some question whether potassium deficiency is involved despite the adequate reading on the plant tissue test. The soil test is extremely low. I found a "Fairway Formula" lawn fertilizer at TSC now which is 30-0-12 and wonder if it's the same one and whether it is what you've continued to use?

<< but have switched to a bit lower phosphorus fertilizer for the May dose (used to use 13-13-13, now use 8-3-5 organic). My soil tested mid-range on the phosphorous, so I lowered the amount in the May fertilizing, but still do that one dose to help the plants with blooming. >>

So you are aiming to apply just enough phosphorus (P) to replace what's used? That agrees with what I've seen recommended when, as your soil has, the phosphorus is at an acceptable moderate level and you aim to maintain it there. 👍🏻

I might demur a little bit on saying it's for flowering since phosphorus is used everywhere in the plant. A strong healthy vigorous plant flowers well. Some P is lost with each flower but it's also lost with every dead scape, leaf and root.

<<Nitrogen and potash are water soluble---so need to be replenished. >>

By water soluble, you mean they don't absorb strongly to the soil, and any not taken up by the plant can more readily leach from the soil than stronger bonding elements like calcium or phosphorus? So they need replacing in larger amounts. That seems to be true just about everywhere. 👍🏻 Plus, nitrogen is used in larger amounts than most elements.

<<A couple years ago I purchased a SOLO Stove at the suggestion of my son. It burns wood down to fine ash with some small bits of charcoal in it. I add it to my potting mix to give an initial burst of Potash, then a time-release effect from the charcoal.>>

Do you only use it in potting mix? Maybe you are growing all your daylilies in pots. If so I didn't know.

Wood ashes are a recognized source of potash (K) with a number of caveats about how to use, possible contaminants, etc. Before using them, especially in the soil, I would recommend that unfamiliar gardeners read this:
https://hort.extension.wisc.ed...
It's certainly an economical choice when you have your own.

<< Also, I switched to water soluble feed. With the number of plants that we have, soluble applied with the garden hose via a Hozon Siphon Mixer makes the job MUCH easier. >>

I can imagine so for a large garden or a lot of pots! It's wouldn't be so easy for someone like Sheri in Alabama who would have to mix and move it around in watering cans. It's a great choice for pots especially. What product and formula are you using?

Greg, thank again for sharing your experience and information! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

Pat

Hello Again,
The fertilizer you found at Tractor Supply is the one I used to use. It could be that they changed the formula to lower the potassium level---or it could be that my memory did not serve me well at the time of writing. Either way, that's it. It's great fertilizer--and inexpensive, too.
You are right about phosphorous. It is essential for the overall plant. If your soil tests out in the lower end of the normal range, I would apply a low phosphorous fertilizer in August when the fall growth is being grown. It will promote a healthier root system. If soil tests mid to upper range---no need for the late dose.
Nitrogen and Potash may be absorbed into the organic part of the soil, but the bacteria and fungus in the soil that breaks down the organics feed on that and use it up quickly. The rest of the soil is the inorganics. N and K do not absorb into that. With every heavy rain, N and K are lost to runoff or settling into the soil deep enough to evade the roots. If you have sandy soil (soil that has greater than 20% sand), you lose N and K at a faster rate, so plants in that situation need more, and more frequent, additions of N and K.
I used to grow all plants in beds in the ground. I have a lot of trees that detect the extra nutrition/water and grew their roots to the bed and steal those things from the daylilies. Maples and Willows are the Worst. Maples can grow their roots over a hundred feet to get to the beds. Willows LOVE WATER. They can grow their roots over two hundred feet to feast on the water/ nutrition. However, All trees will do the same. Don't ask me how they detect water two hundred feet away. That would be a great research project for a Horticulture PhD thesis.
I am in the process of digging all the daylilies from the beds and potting them up with saucers. So, yes I grow them in potting mix. It is a bother to water every day, but the results speak for them selves. The daylilies have performed ultimately better potted than in the ground. It also is a better, and more efficient use of materials.
Yes, you have to use only wood that is not treated to burn for ash. If I burn some leftover pieces of treated wood, I throw those ashes in the trash. The wood ash I use is from hardwoods that come from the wooded section of my property. I have never had a problem using it. I've used it for many years.
I use Miracle Grow 50% with PetraTools Liquid Nitrogen 50%. That dilutes the phosphorous that's in the Miracle Grow down to 4%. If your soil tests in the upper area of the range, then use the PetraTools Liquid Nitrogen, or some other 0% phosphorous fertilizer straight. Pay attention to the type of Nitrogen source that is used to make the fertilizer. If it is high urea nitrogen, that can burn the plants if it builds up in the soil or the soil gets too dry--thus increasing the urea concentration. Urea can coat the soil particles. It needs to be broken down into soluble nitrogen for the plants to use. Try to find fertilizer that is high in soluble nitrogen. PetraTools Liquid Nitrogen is 70% soluble. I use half strength, at more frequent intervals, so that the plants can use it up with out too much buildup. Amazon offers PetraTools Liquid Nitrogen. When I am done transferring the plants to all pots, I will shift to a 100% soluble nitrogen source, and only apply a urea formula at the beginning of the growing cycle.
It's good to be scientific. It's science that got us into this global warming mess, and science that will hopefully, get us out of it.

My short scapes are caused by grubs eating the roots. I also get short scapes after bad winters sometimes.

I would like to suggest Sheri use pine straw mulch. It would add a lot of organic matter, hold moisture and help prevent erosion.
This little article explains some of the benefits and the coverage a bale of pine straw could provide (according to bale size). I think pine straw is one of the easiest mulches to work with and is readily available in this area. For her small garden area the expense would be minimal.


https://ahsregion3.plantfans.c...
page 20 Long Leaf Pine Straw

Larry @Seedfork

Thanks for that information and link! Pine straw is not something I've seen up here in Ohio. We have a line of white pines that we sometimes gather needle piles from. I like the way they look as mulch on top of planters until the plants fill in. That sounds like a very practical, affordable and easy to use product for her situation!

I have been working the last 2 weeks doing calculations of what to do for her daylilies after a lot of reading and some inquiries. I am just getting ready to ask Greg if what he saw is the same as in her garden, because I am relying partly on his reported success with reversing his short scape problem. For now, it looks like raising organic matter, including the use of mulch for that, will be taking second priority to getting the soil nutrients balanced first.

I'm hoping to post on the other thread about the nutrients after I hear Greg's response here. I hope he has time!

Pat

Greg @Sscape
Thanks very much for your reply! The TSC fertilizer was of special interest because of the higher potsssium (K) in NPK 30-0-12 which you confirmed is the one you used, thanks. There is still some question as to whether low K was/is an issue with the short scapes in the Alabama garden.

I want to be sure we are comparing similar problems. Her plants are otherwise very healthy looking with rich green foliage. The flowers even are almost normal in color and form.

Did your plants and scapes look like these? If not what was different about yours? Thanks!
Pat