robynanne said:Here is the new area for the ramps/beans/chard.


The long area on the east side of the shed is for full sun beans. There will be 8 ft trellis poles along there in the spring. The beans will grow up that over the summer and create the forest effect of the leaves filling in and giving the ramps more and more shade over the weeks. Based on the ramp growing studies, it looks like they need the sun in the spring to sprout, but need the shade over the summer to not die. Makes sense with their natural home being in a maple/birch forest floor. The middle is for the ramps and the long side on the west is for chard which will be able to take the afternoon sun but can handle larger amounts of shade. (I considered bok choy too.. still considering but I don't have any seeds for those.)

The whole thing is covered with a couple inches of loose hay and then raked maple leaves on top of that. The study said to give them lots of falling leave cover so I used the hay before I had the leaves, but I'm hoping that this will give them some nice mulch/compost as the hay and leaves break down into the dirt, and it will stop the grass and weeds from growing before the ramps can take over.

Any feedback is welcome!

That looks very nice. I honestly don't know what ramps need so can't comment or help with that.

I do know that hay makes a very nice mulch and of course does eventually break down and enrich the soil.

As to the chard verses the bok choi, I think you made the wiser decision. The chard will keep growing all spring and summer. Bok Choi is a short season crop, It grows and you have to harvest it all before it bolts with some warm weather. And that's it, it is done. You can't replant as it doesn't grow in the heat, it is very picky about temps.

robynanne said:Here is the new area for the ramps/beans/chard.
...
The middle is for the ramps and the long side on the west is for chard which will be able to take the afternoon sun but can handle larger amounts of shade. (I considered bok choy too.. still considering but I don't have any seeds for those.)
...

I agree with Rita: Bok Choy won't take any heat, assuming Minnesota summers are hot. Well, you might squeeze in a second spring planting of Bok Choy if you harvest them as baby leaves in late spring.

Now, if you plant it for a Fall harvest (and then mulch very heavily and/or give them some solar covering) the survivors may overwinter enough to bolt and produce seeds "when they should", as biennials, the spring after they started.

No Bok Choy seed! If you join either of the current seed swaps, I'll try to rectify THAT situation! Plus I'm offering two kinds of chard, tatsoi and a few kinds of Chinese cabbage (fall crops, probably).

I wanted to point out that I love Boy Choi, I like it better than chard (to eat). But it sticks around for such a short time in the garden. So I feel garden space is better allotted to Chard.

That all said I usually grow some Bok Choi in a big planter each spring. That way its not taking up valuable garden space.

Hunnh! I see from planting calendars that chard can be started outside before the last spring frost! I thought it was more of a summer crop, and started it much later. It sure lasts all summer!

I might keep doing that after retirement when I have infinitely more time for gardening - Bok Choy and spinach in early spring, then sow chard when the Bok Choy is almost done ... for example baby Bok Choy and others harvested when young.

Chard is really hardy -- I've had it overwinter here a couple of times... and no problems with cabbage worms, which I have with all sorts of Brassicas.

Weedwhacker said:Chard is really hardy -- I've had it overwinter here a couple of times... and no problems with cabbage worms, which I have with all sorts of Brassicas.

Hmmm... I haven't tried to over winter it. I've got carrots and kohlrabi which I'm testing out an overwinter attempt for getting seeds next year. I guess I should try the chard. I didn't because I'm moving them to that new spot. I'm learning how to consume chard. We've always been a bok choy family but I assumed I couldn't grow that in MN. I've since learned that it would love the shade which I have plenty of, but based on the reports here it is still very tricky here. The chard was easy enough. I've learned that I don't need to wait for it to look like full grown stalks in the grocery store before I can use it, just pull a few leaves off a growing plant at a time. I also learned that it is very.. savory.. to eat vs the bok choy. I tried at first to use chard raw in salads and the kids weren't impressed. It is very much a cooking green for us. On that note, dinner tonight was chicken stir fry from our chard harvest.

Hmmm, when someone in Zone 4 says "sometimes overwinters", I ought to be able to grow it year-round!

Now I'm really glad that I have so many varieties of chard in my stash:

Lyon Swiss Chard Beta vulgaris Cicla Group Territorial #SW852 2016
Chard 'Verde a Costa Blanca' Franchi Seeds 2014
Chard Verde da Taglio Franchi Seeds 2014
Chard 'Barese' fat white midribs. Franchi (14-98)
"Japanese Chard" , Umaina fudansu, Beta vulgaris subsq cicla group, Kitazawa #280 2014
Swiss Chard, Fordhook Giant, Beta vulgaris Ferry-Morse 2010

I don't eat it raw, but I haven't tried "Lyons" chard yet, or pushed to see how young I can take the leaves. Territorial Seeds claims it is “best flavor”, mild like spinach. We'll see. Burpee or Parks used up all my potential belief in seed catalog claims, when every variety was "best taste", "most productive", and "favorite".

I forgot I was going to dig up some roots when I harvested them to see what they look like! They are said to just be beets which have been bred for their leaves. I also have to pull up the actual beets I've been growing for the leaves. They probably didn't get a chance to grow much in the roots area since I kept cutting the leaves but I'm curious what's there.

I dug up the celery roots to see what was there after harvesting the celery. Nothing. Nothing is what was there. I should probably google celery root and see what the deal is.

You Bok Choi lovers might also consider a related green, Tatsoi. Smaller, zestier leaves. We use both plants for salads as well as stir-fry. Sandhill, Johnnys, BakerCreek and Kitazawa all have it.

Chard is SO much easier to grow than spinach... which, every time I grow it, seems to be perfect one day and then totally bolted the next. I don't like it very well raw, either, but sauteed with some garlic... yum!

Robyn, when you say there were no roots on the celery plants ... are you thinking of the vegetable called "celery root" and that's why you were disappointed? It's related to the "stalk" type of celery, but isn't the same plant. I've grown it a couple of times and the roots didn't get as large as the ones I've seen in the grocery store, but they really are tasty to chop up for soups and such.

Rick, I would think chard would grow year-around for you, or nearly so anyway (it might take a break and then come back up, and would probably bolt at that point since it's a biennial). I like the "Bright Lights" chard just because it's so ornamental in the garden... I should probably try some of the other varieties that are supposed to have better flavor .

I'm also planning to try growing tatsoi next year... and I'm going to be waging war on the cabbage worms with some screened enclosures!

The North garden is ninety seven percent done. Will leave the few chiles and tomatoes till next week when it is supposed to frost again and then pull them out, with the broccoli that got a second wind a few weeks ago and turn that garden over by hand.

Heading down in an hour or so to dig the remaining potatoes and see if there are enough corn stalks still up to be worth shocking.
As half the garden will already be turned over digging potatoes, I will decide if I should do the rest or wait till my buttocks feel better.
As I have to get back to mold removal I probably will wait.

Got little done last week as a friends husband died, it was a blessing, he was in horrid shape, had to buy a new washing machine and take the other half to the hospital for a check-up.
Hate to say it BUT as they now have such nice quiet waithing/break rooms with good coffee and computers, I enjoy taking her to the clinics and hospital.

DonShirer said:You Bok Choi lovers might also consider a related green, Tatsoi. Smaller, zestier leaves. We use both plants for salads as well as stir-fry. Sandhill, Johnnys, BakerCreek and Kitazawa all have it.

I agree! Tatsoi grows slower than Bok Choy, and doesn't have the thick, sweet, crunchy stem, but tatsoi is even more cold-hardy.

Weedwhacker said:Chard is SO much easier to grow than spinach... which, every time I grow it, seems to be perfect one day and then totally bolted the next. I don't like it very well raw, either, but sauteed with some garlic... yum!
...
Rick, I would think chard would grow year-around for you, or nearly so anyway (it might take a break and then come back up, and would probably bolt at that point since it's a biennial).
....
I'm also planning to try growing tatsoi next year... and I'm going to be waging war on the cabbage worms with some screened enclosures!

Floating row covers might be easier, and some have said they keep a lot of the cabbage worms / cabbage moths off the Brassicas.

>> (it might take a break and then come back up, and would probably bolt at that point since it's a biennial).

That's what I would expect, too. After I retire, I plan to have low hoop tunnels over my beds. But north of Seattle, winter days can be very short, and not many plants keep growing with only 8.5 hours of daylight. I would like to save seeds from some of my more unusual chards, but Franchi has some big, inexpensive packets of several chard varieties.

RickCorey said:
Floating row covers might be easier, and some have said they keep a lot of the cabbage worms / cabbage moths off the Brassicas.

Floating row cover definitely works... but, I hate that I can't see my plants underneath it. I use it all the time, when I set out seedlings in the spring, when I plant seeds in the summer (for the shade and moisture-holding), and in the fall when frost threatens; but for the Brassicas it needs to be on pretty much the whole time to protect from the cabbage butterflies and their offspring, and I want to see those plants! Someone here... I think it might have been Sally (aka BillyPorter) -- posted a photo a while back of some low tunnels covered with screen instead of plastic or row cover, and they really looked nice in her garden. (of course, whether I actually make the time to do that is another issue... )

Sandy, did you have to use some method to "seal" the floating row fabric to the ground so cabbage moths could not crawl UNDER it? Like laying a 2x4 or bricks along the loose edges, or shoveling some soil or mulch on top of the edge?

DonShirer said:You Bok Choi lovers might also consider a related green, Tatsoi. Smaller, zestier leaves. We use both plants for salads as well as stir-fry. Sandhill, Johnnys, BakerCreek and Kitazawa all have it.

I have grown Tatsoi. I find it easier than Bok Choi to grow in that it really is much more heat tolerant. Yes, I feel the leaves of both can be used to same way.

Wow, summer tatsoi? I never tried that!

RickCorey said:Sandy, did you have to use some method to "seal" the floating row fabric to the ground so cabbage moths could not crawl UNDER it? Like laying a 2x4 or bricks along the loose edges, or shoveling some soil or mulch on top of the edge?

I don't actually know if this is necessary or not... maybe someone else can help me out here!

I've never seen the butterflies walking around on the ground, though, so I've never thought it would be an issue. (and I've never been able to bring myself to leave the row cover on long enough to know for sure ) Certainly wouldn't hurt anything to do that, though... I'm actually more concerned about whether the cabbage worms have pupated in the soil of my garden and will hatch out only to find themselves in cabbage worm heaven, enclosed with a bunch of brassicas. I didn't grow anything from the cabbage family this year, in the hope of kind of breaking their cycle... time will tell if that actually worked or not.

I guess tomorrow I will get back to my project of pulling out the tomato plants and bundling them up to put out for the yard waste pickup.

I have been slowly pulling them out here and there for weeks. Time to get more out as mostly they are done, done, done setting and ripening tomatoes.

I did do some yesterday but not that much and today I had to finish bundling up the branches that I still had unattended from my cut back the shrubs project. And I also had the eggplants to bundle up as I dig them out a few days ago but just left them.

We had our first frost this morning... although it didn't really seem to touch anything in the garden. (A little hard to tell at this point, since the tomatoes are pretty well shot from "blight" or whatever (other than the ones in the hoop house), and the cukes are also done, due to mildew. Beans have been done for a while now, and all the pumpkins and squash were pulled out several days ago. The peppers didn't look like that had been frozen at all, so I did cover them for tonight (which is supposed to be a couple of degrees colder) - since after tonight the weather is supposed to warm up a bit and the lows will mostly be in the low 50s to high 40s.

This is one of very few years that I'm actually ready for the garden to be done for the year... probably because my mind is occupied with plans for building the new greenhouse (actually a larger hoop house, 16 x 20'). First I have to get everything out of the present greenhouse (8x16), and then we're going to try to move it over to a different area so we can use it to store all the "stuff" -- shelves, pots and so on -- until the new one is ready. The project also involves moving large railroad ties around (which we used for the base of the old GH and will also be used for the new one) and leveling them -- a lot of work there, not something I would attempt myself for sure. After that things should happen pretty quickly, but that may or may not be before the weather gets too bad to continue. So, might not get finished until spring, but in that case I'll use the small hoop house for my seedlings, and the new one should easily be done in time to put in my tomato plants (which is actually the main reason for the whole thing). Tomorrow we're going to go buy the lumber that we need, because it's on sale, as well as the PVC pipes which will be used for the top half. And I also need to get my garlic planted tomorrow if at all possible!

Newyorkrita said:I guess tomorrow I will get back to my project of pulling out the tomato plants and bundling them up to put out for the yard waste pickup.

I have been slowly pulling them out here and there for weeks. Time to get more out as mostly they are done, done, done setting and ripening tomatoes.

I did do some yesterday but not that much and today I had to finish bundling up the branches that I still had unattended from my cut back the shrubs project. And I also had the eggplants to bundle up as I dig them out a few days ago but just left them.

Sometimes seems like there is no end to it, doesn't it!