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Jul 7, 2016 10:49 AM CST
Name: Rita
North Shore, Long Island, NY
Zone 6B
Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Tomato Heads I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Vegetable Grower Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
Birds Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Roses Photo Contest Winner: 2016
robynanne said:I've got a new 'Sky Reacher' tomato plant in my garden. This is the only one I didn't start by seed. I got it for my daughter who is really into Star Wars so I thought she'd get a kick out of the name. Anyway, it only got to a certain height and just stopped growing. It put out a few buds but even those aren't maturing or turning into flowers at all. I looked up the plant and half the sites say it is determinate and half say indeterminate. I think it is safe to say it much be determinate based on not growing more but it is weird that the buds it started aren't filling out either. I've never grown a 'set size' tomato plant before so I'm not sure what to expect. Are the buds that it has now all it will have period? Also, it is very funny to me that it is called 'sky reacher' when it is so short for a tomato plant.

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Maybe the name was just a marketing ploy.

On the Determine Tomato Plants. They will grow and reach a certain pre programed by genetics size before they flower. Then set tons of flowers and fruit. Once those fruits are harvested they don't do much more.



Last edited by Newyorkrita Jul 7, 2016 11:38 AM Icon for preview
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Jul 7, 2016 11:16 AM CST
Name: Robyn
Minnesota (Zone 4a)
Apples Garden Photography Composter Herbs Seed Starter Solar Power
Tomato Heads Vegetable Grower Enjoys or suffers cold winters
Newyorkrita said:

Maybe the name was just a marketing plow.

On the Determine Tomato Plants. They will grow and reach a certain pre programed by genetics size before they flower. Then set tons of flowers and fruit. Once those fruits are harvested they don't do much more.


thanks! We'll see what we get then. It has about 5-8 buds set now so not that many. I'm glad to learn about this kind of tomato plant. If I like these tomatoes and grow them again I'll be better prepared for them. Smiling
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Jul 7, 2016 11:46 AM CST
Name: Rita
North Shore, Long Island, NY
Zone 6B
Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Tomato Heads I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Vegetable Grower Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
Birds Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Roses Photo Contest Winner: 2016
robynanne said:

thanks! We'll see what we get then. It has about 5-8 buds set now so not that many. I'm glad to learn about this kind of tomato plant. If I like these tomatoes and grow them again I'll be better prepared for them. :)


I like determinate tomatoes. Like the fact that I get lots and lots of fruit over a short period of time. If course I have a much smaller amount of determinates then regular tomatoes so it works out well for me.

Last year I left my determinate tomatoes after they finished. The San Marzanos never did a thing more, just sat there like a waste of time. Some of the others like Carolina Gold and another yellow finally after weeks made a few more tomatoes.

I didn't think it was worth the wait. This year I have Taxi, Bush Early Girl and Bush Champion and plan on pulling them out after they finish their big harvest. I have plenty of other tomatoes to last me till fall.
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Jul 9, 2016 4:38 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Thomas
Deep East Texas (Zone 8a)
Bee Lover Vegetable Grower Tomato Heads Region: Texas Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Greenhouse
Farmer Butterflies Birds Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Garden Ideas: Level 2
OK received all my new seeds from Tomato Growers Supply in the mail yesterday, now what is the best way to store them for next year? Leave them in their original packet and store in a pantry, or in the icebox?

By the way, they added a bonus package of Marianna's Peace, an indeterminate PINK tomato that is supposed to grow up to a 2-pound tomato Hurray! Hurray! Anybody have experience with these?
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Jul 9, 2016 8:53 AM CST
Name: Rita
North Shore, Long Island, NY
Zone 6B
Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Tomato Heads I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Vegetable Grower Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
Birds Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Roses Photo Contest Winner: 2016
I leave my seeds in the original packets, put a bunch of those in one of those plastic freezer bags but I don't zip them shut. I put them in my cooler basement until I need them.

Always fun to receive new seeds!
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Jul 9, 2016 9:41 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Thomas
Deep East Texas (Zone 8a)
Bee Lover Vegetable Grower Tomato Heads Region: Texas Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Greenhouse
Farmer Butterflies Birds Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Garden Ideas: Level 2
Newyorkrita said:I leave my seeds in the original packets, put a bunch of those in one of those plastic freezer bags but I don't zip them shut. I put them in my cooler basement until I need them.

Always fun to receive new seeds!


Hi Rita,

What is a cooler basement Confused
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Jul 9, 2016 9:44 AM CST
Name: Rita
North Shore, Long Island, NY
Zone 6B
Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Tomato Heads I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Vegetable Grower Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
Birds Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Roses Photo Contest Winner: 2016
Thomas75 said:

Hi Rita,

What is a cooler basement Confused


I have an unfinished basement and it always stays cooler than the rest of the house. Summer or winter.

House itself is not air conditioned so basement is better for storing seeds longer term.
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Jul 9, 2016 12:41 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Thomas
Deep East Texas (Zone 8a)
Bee Lover Vegetable Grower Tomato Heads Region: Texas Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Greenhouse
Farmer Butterflies Birds Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Garden Ideas: Level 2
@Newyorkrita, I have been saving my seeds in a plastic jar with a lid on it that I keep in the door of the icebox. Taking from your information I drilled several large holes in the lid to allow it to breath. Thanks for the help. Thank You!
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Jul 9, 2016 1:01 PM CST
Name: Rita
North Shore, Long Island, NY
Zone 6B
Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Tomato Heads I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Vegetable Grower Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
Birds Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Roses Photo Contest Winner: 2016
Thomas75 said:@Newyorkrita, I have been saving my seeds in a plastic jar with a lid on it that I keep in the door of the icebox. Taking from your information I drilled several large holes in the lid to allow it to breath. Thanks for the help. Thank You!
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Is it in the freezer? If so you don't want the holes at all!! Might kill your seeds!

Maybe someone that keeps their seeds long term in the fridge can chime in but I am not sure they need the holes even in the fridge. But since I don't store my seeds that way, I am not sure.
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Jul 9, 2016 2:20 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Thomas
Deep East Texas (Zone 8a)
Bee Lover Vegetable Grower Tomato Heads Region: Texas Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Greenhouse
Farmer Butterflies Birds Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Garden Ideas: Level 2
Hey again Rita, no it is in my refrigerator.
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Jul 9, 2016 3:32 PM CST
Name: Rita
North Shore, Long Island, NY
Zone 6B
Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Tomato Heads I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Vegetable Grower Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
Birds Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Roses Photo Contest Winner: 2016
Thomas75 said:Hey again Rita, no it is in my refrigerator.


Oh good. I was really concerned about them being in the freezer.
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Jul 9, 2016 6:12 PM CST
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River Twp, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Bee Lover Butterflies Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Greenhouse Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Enjoys or suffers cold winters
I would say either store your seeds at cool room temperature (if you have such a thing -- but I assume you have A/C), or in the freezer, in freezer bags. Tomato seeds will stay good for at least 4 years if they are kept dry and cool, in my experience. (well, actually, mine are sometimes not all that cool, we have no A/C, so when it's really hot out the temp goes up a bit; but I keep them in the spare bedroom, which is on the north side of the house and stays cooler). They will keep considerably longer in the freezer; but, when you take them out leave them sealed up until they come to room temp or there will be condensation which can damage them)

I'm not really sure why, but I don't think storing them for any length of time in the fridge (other than for cold stratification before planting) is advisable. I may be totally wrong about that, or it might be some bit of knowledge in my mind that I can't quite put my finger on at the moment... Shrug!

Maybe @Rickcorey has some input about the best place to store seeds. Smiling
“Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight." ~ Albert Schweitzer
C/F temp conversion
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Jul 9, 2016 6:14 PM CST
Name: Robyn
Minnesota (Zone 4a)
Apples Garden Photography Composter Herbs Seed Starter Solar Power
Tomato Heads Vegetable Grower Enjoys or suffers cold winters
I'm lazy about seeds, though I'm sure that will change once I run into problem. I just leave them in their original plastic bags zipped shut at room temp. *Blush*
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Jul 10, 2016 8:53 AM CST
Name: Tom
Southern Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Butterflies Vegetable Grower Keeper of Poultry Irises Keeps Horses Dog Lover
Daylilies Cat Lover Region: Wisconsin Celebrating Gardening: 2015
I have some tomato seeds that were 4 years old this year just kept at room temp, no AC and they germinated fine this year. Planted 4 seeds, 3 came up.
Politicians are like diapers, they need to be changed often, and for the same reason.
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Jul 10, 2016 9:00 AM CST
Name: Rita
North Shore, Long Island, NY
Zone 6B
Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Tomato Heads I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Vegetable Grower Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
Birds Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Roses Photo Contest Winner: 2016
tveguy3 said:I have some tomato seeds that were 4 years old this year just kept at room temp, no AC and they germinated fine this year. Planted 4 seeds, 3 came up.


This spring when I was doing my tomatoes from seed some of my seed was from 2010. No special was of storing them. Came up just fine.
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Jul 10, 2016 11:58 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Thomas
Deep East Texas (Zone 8a)
Bee Lover Vegetable Grower Tomato Heads Region: Texas Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Greenhouse
Farmer Butterflies Birds Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Garden Ideas: Level 2
Thanks to everyone, I guess I have gone to a bit more trouble and concern than actually needed. Sure is easier to keep them in a pantry.
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Jul 10, 2016 12:12 PM CST
Name: Rita
North Shore, Long Island, NY
Zone 6B
Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Tomato Heads I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Vegetable Grower Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
Birds Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Roses Photo Contest Winner: 2016
Thomas75 said:Thanks to everyone, I guess I have gone to a bit more trouble and concern than actually needed. Sure is easier to keep them in a pantry.


I think if you plan on keeping seeds for the long run then you have to really store them in the best way. But if you will be using them up next spring then I see no reason to fuss and just keep them were it is handy.
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Jul 10, 2016 6:56 PM CST
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River Twp, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Bee Lover Butterflies Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Greenhouse Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Enjoys or suffers cold winters
Newyorkrita said:

I think if you plan on keeping seeds for the long run then you have to really store them in the best way. But if you will be using them up next spring then I see no reason to fuss and just keep them were it is handy.


I agree
The only exception that I can think of might be onion seeds, which have a much shorter "shelf life," but even those will give probably 50% or so germination the following year, in my experience.
“Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight." ~ Albert Schweitzer
C/F temp conversion
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Jul 11, 2016 12:11 PM CST
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
Frugal Gardener Garden Procrastinator I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest
Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database.
I'd say that if you're only storing them for 2-5 years, and can live with lower germination rates after 3-4 years, almost anything works for short-term storage.

(I'm talking about normal seeds, not tropical seeds that need to stay moist at all times, and need to be planted ASAP after falling from the plant.)

(Maybe "sealed in plastic" protects them from swings in humidity, for example rainy days and fog condensing when the fridge door is opened. But it also seals IN any humidity still in the seeds when you zip them shut, plus humidity released from the (living) seeds as they metabolize slowly. That's why I like some desiccant in the picture when I seal seeds in ZIP-Locs. But I've gone for years at a time without replenishing the desiccant, so I think it's optional except in humid areas.)

Just make sure the humidity always stays below 50% RH (avoid mold) and hopefully usually below 30% RH (slow down the metabolism of the seeds so they don't consume all their stored energy just sitting on the shelf).

15% RH is the lower humidity limit. Normal seeds last the longest at that RH.
Kew Royal Botanic Gardens had the most convincing arguments about seed storage:
"Seed life span approximately doubles for every 10% reduction in seed eRH."

http://www.kew.org/sites/defau...

http://garden.org/ideas/view/R...
http://garden.org/ideas/view/R...
http://garden.org/ideas/view/R...

I'm always suspicious of humidity inside a fridge. Every time I open the door, I SEE some condensation, and that's only the droplets that I SEE. When I was storing seeds in the fridge, I had them sealed in Zip-Locs INSIDE a screw-cap jar, with desiccant in the jar. I never opened the lid until after all codnesation had dried from the outside of the jar, and the contents seemed up to room temperature.

BTW: the "crisper drawer" or "vegetable drawer" is the MOST humid part of the fridge. It's designed that way to keep lettuce crisp by preventing it from drying out.

The freezer, in modern self-defrosting fridges, actively dehydrates itself to reduce frost formation. "Freezer burn" is when food dries out and hardens in that aggressively dry environment. Yet water condenses on every package every time you open the freezer door. If you store seeds there, dry them WELL first, seal them VERY WELL to reduce long-term freezer burn, A.K.A. potent dehydration. I would double-bag them at the very least, or bag them inside a screw-cap-jar with a good soft gasket.

Then (if it were me) I would worry as much about condensation as about freezer burn.

Anyway, I don't store seeds in the freezer, so someone with more experience may be able to say: "freezer burn and condensation are all well and good, but as long as I kept them dry, my seeds lasted 2-4 years with no care at all, and more years than were easy to test in the fridge or freezer, so what's the problem?"

But, if you ever found insects or insect-holes in saved beans or other seeds, the freezer is good for killing insects and insect eggs. Dry the seeds well, very well, and double-bag them (at least - here is a great use for a desiccant!) After they are very dry and well-sealed, toss them in the freezer for at least three days. Kill 90% of any insects and eggs.

(The hard part is taking them out of the freezer without water condensing inside the bags. Hence desiccant in the inner bag.)

After you take them out, let them come up to room temp and all moisture to evaporate before you open the double-bags.
If it was worth killing bugs once, it's worthwhile to wait a week or two, then re-freeze them in the same double-bags, to kill most of the remaining 10% insects.

Seeds last longer in storage if they get several of these, the most important ones listed first:
1. Be DRY (15-30% eRH).
2. be uniformly dry, without humidity swings
3. be cool, without large temperature swings.
4. be dark

I think it was Joseph who pointed out the very first rule: keep hungry rodents away from stored seeds!
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Jul 11, 2016 12:40 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Thomas
Deep East Texas (Zone 8a)
Bee Lover Vegetable Grower Tomato Heads Region: Texas Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Greenhouse
Farmer Butterflies Birds Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Garden Ideas: Level 2
Thanks @RickCorey good advise. I will keep all my seeds in the pantry, dark, moderately cool, but a consistent temperature summer and winter. Most all the seeds that I buy are used up in the Spring and then Fall planting. It is rare for me to carry over one year to the next.

Again Thank You!

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