Hi-

I've got a black-eyed susan in my yard that's unique, and am trying to find out if it might be a new hybrid. For decades we've had them come up each spring from previous years' seeds, and just let them grow where they sprout, or move them to a more appropriate spot. This one I haven't seen before, nor on your list of Rudbekia's. A good name would be the Octopus or Starfish Rudbekia, huh?

Check out the image(s) I've attached and please advise if it's nothing new.

Thanks

Pretty neat Rudbeckia. I don't think I've seen it on any site's listing.
If you've different Rudbeckia varieties, I'd say you've a nice Rudbeckia self seeded cross. They materialize in many, often bizarre configurations.
Some examples -

Hi, looks like your rudbeckia has spontaneously morphed into a new shape. I have not seen one like you have and I visit nurseries all the time . I have some larkspur that has done the same thing . Mostly what grows here is a single purple form but I have some pale pink , pink , deep pink with white stripes and a deep purple double that have developed by spontaneously mutating . I will collect seed this year from these and time will tell if the seeds produce the morphed variety or revert back to the ordinary purple. Love the look of your new form!!!!!!!!!!

Spectacular looking Rudbeckia!

That is one nice looking plant.

Here's a few more images of it:

It does look special. It looks like a Rudbeckia hirta type? If so how will you propagate it, they tend to be short-lived and it won't come true from seed unless/until you use it to create a line I assume?

I have no idea what I'm doing, which is why I came here. I suspect it indeed won't produce seedlings identical to it, and I'd like to know how to purify a line. This year there is only one other one blooming near it, and it is a standard black-eyed type coneflower with normal petals. No doubt that will contaminate pollination of the Lady Lee (my name for the tentacle petaled plant [after my wife] I'd otherwise call "Starfish Coneflower" or "Whirligig Coneflower" or perhaps "Whirligig Susan").

Does it "self-pollinate" within its own flowers, or am I to expect it only to cross only with the regular coneflower nearby? I'm assuming I need to let the seedheads dry, then store until planting in a tray next spring, set those out in the garden, and see if I can get at least two Lady Lee's. Then isolate them somehow from insects, and hand cross-pollinate?

Just guessing the process to get a pure strain, and assuming it would take years as I don't think I can get two generations bloomed out in one season.

Thanks for any advice.

I hope you figure it out because it sure is beautiful!

The only sure way to get the same plant is to tissue culture it or clone it .

Seeds you get from it this year will still have the genes of all the others it came from, so you could get any number of different crosses from them. I think what you'd have to do is isolate this plant, (pot it up in the fall and give it winter protection so it won't die) then divide it next spring as soon as you see growth starting.

If you can keep it isolated - somewhere far away from any other Rudbeckias, or in a screened cage where bees can't get through to the plants, then some generations down the road, you will have a pure line of seeds, I think. You may have to hand pollinate the plants, too since the bees can't do the job for you.

This is the reason why new hybrids or strains of new plants are expensive at first - the growers have gone through the exhaustive process of isolating the genetic mutation for long enough that it will come true from seed. Or conversely they are simply propagating it by divisions endlessly, which is once again a very slow, laborious process to get to a point of having enough plants to actually market it.

I'm not sure it would be divisible, that type of Rudbeckia is short-lived and doesn't necessarily overwinter, where I am anyway. It's not like 'Goldsturm' which is reliably perennial, it looks more like an 'Indian Summer' type.. I keep the latter going from self sown seedlings. I think you'd have to save seeds, at least as back-up, and keep crossing the seedlings most like it until you get a true breeding line. Or try and sell it to a company that breeds and markets annuals. That's just my thought based on the type it appears to be in the pic.

I HAVE had Cherry Brandy Rudbeckia survive the winter and bloom the following year here in NE WA, so you might be able to successfully do what Elaine suggested. Mine survived over the winter, in containers, with no particular care, so I'd think a little tender loving attention and they might very well live to bloom again in the Spring.

I have a strange one here too that i'd really love to propagate. I bought seeds (cherry brandy and sahara) so i have no clue which one it is, but i absolutely love it and it really want to propagate it.

That is beautiful!

Hey Hafcanadian, what has become of that amazing starfish rudbeckia? That would qualify for a plant patent. Contact Pacific Plug and Liner about tissue culturing it if you still have a plant of it. If you have seed for sale, email me [admin removed email]

FYI, the original poster has not returned since posting here over 6.5 years ago.

@Gotgordy, it's never a good idea to post any personal info like emails in a public forum, spammers cruise sites for them, I deleted it. If anyone wants to contact you privately they can use the site's private message system.

Thanks Calif_Sue for the info. I figured it was a long shot.

Hello Gotgordy and others-
I misplaced this forum over the years since first posting, but succeeded in resurrecting it because although I've many versions of Lady Lee in my back and front yards now, I'm sure they and the standards are diluting seeding. Not long ago I discovered the original in our back yard apparently has survived the years, hidden by overgrown Shasta Daisies, Hostas, and other vigorous plants that have taken over that spot. The original is obviously not as vigorous, having the sun robbed from it by the others. Today I yanked out the offending daisy that has vigorously spread, leaving only a hint of it that has roots too dangerously close to the Lady Lee to try pulling out.

I don't really know how to propagate it from cuttings. I did save seeds from it a few years ago, but they may no longer be viable. There are two large blooms on it, seen after clearing out the strangling daisy, and they are aging fast. I'll try to save their seeds, but am afraid nearby Susans may have pollinated them. Those Susans are a mix of standard and half-Lady Lee, judging by the degree of petal twist on them.

I'd appreciate any help and advice toward my trying to preserve the original and its DNA. I'm not that interested in "selling" the flower, and a seed company may want to patent it. I'm more interested in it retaining the Lady Lee moniker in honor of my long-suffering wife. We are both getting older and pretty "banged up"; my wife no longer does significant gardening - it's all up to me. I'm reluctant to mess with the plant too much, given it's less than optimum condition and the recent and current spate of hot weather here in the Northwest.

I might try putting some sort of netting over the younger blooms in the photo, to keep bees from pollinating them, and then try transferring pollen amongst them by hand... if I can figure out the timing. They may have already been visited by bees.