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Mar 17, 2010 4:19 PM CST
Name: Linda
Carmel, IN (Zone 5b)
Forum moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member Region: Indiana Dog Lover Container Gardener
Seed Starter Herbs Vegetable Grower Cut Flowers Butterflies Birds
The Metro Mix here was $18. for the 2.8 cu ft bag--pretty comparable to what MG is here (that's about 11-12 for the 2 cu ft bag).
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Mar 17, 2010 5:51 PM CST
Name: Allison
NJ (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Forum moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Region: New Jersey Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1
price is the other reason I switched to coir
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Mar 17, 2010 6:18 PM CST
Name: Linda
Carmel, IN (Zone 5b)
Forum moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member Region: Indiana Dog Lover Container Gardener
Seed Starter Herbs Vegetable Grower Cut Flowers Butterflies Birds
But by the time you have to have the coir shipped, it doubles the cost (at least in our area). I think I need to swing by Karen's garden center the next time I go out to visit my sister in Dayton! I am so happy to have the MetroMix-I didn't even bother to use the last 1/2 bag of MG grow I had. I'll probably use the MG when I dig some plants for our plant sale. I'm using the MetroMix mainly for transplanting my seedlings out of cell packs into larger pots. I do use coir in my outdoor containers, and love it for that.

Allison--have you used coir for seed-starting? Do you amend it at all or add any fertilizer? Would love to know, because I really do like using the coir.
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Mar 17, 2010 7:10 PM CST
Name: Allison
NJ (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Forum moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Region: New Jersey Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1
yes been using it for cuttings and seeds... most of them I mixed up perlite in with it.. well at least until I ran out Big Grin been looking for that in larger bags as well.. with no luck.. even with the ones I didn't amend anything and I really like it so far.. no gnats!! I have been using compost tea because there is nothing nutritional in it.. once they get larger and transplanted they will have some slow release fertilizer

did you price out Boca Bob yet?.. he has a market place ad on DG.. that's where I bought mine from.. and he has the large blocks.. once they expand they can fill 3 - 5 gallon pots .. a lot bigger than those little bricks.. might be more cost efficient that way.. or at least I thought so
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Mar 17, 2010 7:46 PM CST
Name: Linda
Carmel, IN (Zone 5b)
Forum moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member Region: Indiana Dog Lover Container Gardener
Seed Starter Herbs Vegetable Grower Cut Flowers Butterflies Birds
Yep, Boca Bob has been my source also. I bought enough last year to fill all of my Earth Boxes and some containers, and also bought some of his grow bags w/coir. His price is the most reasonable around, and he only charges shipping costs (no "handling fees"), plus he's a pleasure to deal with.
I may need to look into trying this for seed starting next year. Currently, I'm using Gardener's Supply Seed germinating mix, which I really like and have been successful with for 3-4 years. It's a little pricey, but can usually get shipping or % off deals.
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Mar 17, 2010 8:08 PM CST
Name: Karen
Valencia, Pa (Zone 6a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cut Flowers Winter Sowing Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Echinacea
Plant and/or Seed Trader Region: Ohio Region: United States of America Butterflies Hummingbirder Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Linda,

Have you tried Worm's Way? Looks like they have lots of stores in Indiana. The one close to me (Erlanger, Ky) carries coir. I don't know how the price compares but might save you shipping charges.

I like Worm's Way. I go there a lot.

Karen
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Mar 17, 2010 8:08 PM CST
Name: Allison
NJ (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Forum moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Region: New Jersey Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1
he is a joy to talk to.. I love his seed starter trays.. but my shelves are not level.. and not everything gets watered evenly.. I keep propping up different areas to see if I can get it level.. should have my honey do it.. he is better at that stuff
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Jul 15, 2010 3:22 PM CST
Name: Evelyn
Sierra foothills, Northern CA (Zone 8a)
Irises Region: Ukraine Garden Procrastinator Bee Lover Butterflies Plant and/or Seed Trader
Region: California Cat Lover Deer Bulbs Foliage Fan Annuals
In order to avoid the high price of shipping here to CA, I ended up making my own mix.

Before I tried the different kinds of bagged mixes. We have a HD 20 miles from our home but it only carries the MG brand. So I went to my local nursery as they carry the large bales of peat, perlite and vermiculite. Now I can adjust the mix to what I am growing, without the additional cost of shipping or buying in small bags. I was happy enough to use the Jiffy-Mix for seed-starting as well as the Ferry-Morse brand, of which I had to get at even a more distant location, but when I read the ingredients of just containing peat and vermiculite, I figured I could mix my own and save the money and time of buying all those smaller bags. I buy the 3.8cuft bags of perlite, vermiculite and peat. There is no local source of coir here yet.
"Luck favors the prepared mind." - Thomas Jefferson
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Jan 14, 2011 6:41 AM CST
Name: Teri
Mount Bethel, PA
Annuals Seed Starter Region: Pennsylvania Region: Northeast US Region: Mid-Atlantic Lilies
Hibiscus Echinacea I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Container Gardener Clematis Charter ATP Member
I will be trying ProMix for the first time this year. It seems that the places that sell hydroponics sell ProMix. The price for a 3.5 cu ft bag is a little more than 30.00. What is the volume of a "bale"?
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Jan 14, 2011 10:29 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Joanne
Calgary, AB Canada (Zone 3a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Region: Canadian Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Roses
Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Annuals Container Gardener Vegetable Grower Winter Sowing Enjoys or suffers cold winters
It's 3.5 cubit feet. About 60 lbs. The BX has mycroise (encourages root growth) and works good for seed starting and also container planting.

The PGX is a lot smaller particle size, so it would be good for very small seeding cell trays (plugs) for 72 cells or more in a tray
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Jan 14, 2011 12:22 PM CST
Name: Barbara
North Pole, Alaska
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Roses...The compressed bale has lots more in it than appears. Good stuff. Been using it for at least 5 years. Up here it was $30 a bale when I started using it.Just priced it a few days ago, $52 a bale this year. I'm sure it's the shipping that drives (pun not intended) the price up up here, but I'm STILL going to use it.
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Jan 14, 2011 2:16 PM CST
Name: Karen
Valencia, Pa (Zone 6a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cut Flowers Winter Sowing Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Echinacea
Plant and/or Seed Trader Region: Ohio Region: United States of America Butterflies Hummingbirder Celebrating Gardening: 2015
If I remember correctly, I think it expands to something like 7 cu ft. It's a lot of mix.

Karen
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Jan 14, 2011 3:46 PM CST
Name: Teri
Mount Bethel, PA
Annuals Seed Starter Region: Pennsylvania Region: Northeast US Region: Mid-Atlantic Lilies
Hibiscus Echinacea I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Container Gardener Clematis Charter ATP Member
Thanks for the info. I am leaving to baby sit one of my grandsons for a week. I'll let you know what I find in this hydroponics place when I get back.

Teri
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May 29, 2011 10:55 AM CST
Name: Franklin Troiso
Rutland, MA (Zone 5b)
Life is to short to eat rice cakes
Charter ATP Member
just in case some of you might have not herd of this kind of planting vegetables and other plans i thought i would pass it on to you. i have never used it but onver on DG they devoted a whole forum on this type of gardening and they swear it works better then putting the seedlings into the ground

Straw Bale Gardening
Subtitle
Straw Bale Gardening is an increasingly popular method of easy, inexpensive soil-less gardening.
Contents
◦Advantages of Straw Bale Gardening
◦How to Garden in Straw Bales:
•1. Choose your Bales
•2. Cure your Bales
•3. Plant
•4. Grow and Enjoy
lessmorePermanent link to this knol:
Link
Andrews, Thomas. Straw Bale Gardening [Internet]. Version 8. Knol. 2008 Aug 11. Available from: http://knol.google.com/k/thoma....
CitationEmailPrintFavoriteCollect this page
----

Hay or Straw Bale Gardening is a method of gardening in which plants are grown in straw bales, usually wheat or oat straw, rather than in soil. Because it is a mostly soil-less method, it is sometimes considered a form of hydroponic gardening. It is suitable for many types of annuals, and is especially used for vegetable gardening.

Advantages of Straw Bale Gardening
There are many reasons why gardeners turn to hay bale gardens. Probably the most common is poor or difficult soil. A straw bale requires no tilling or mixing of soils to allow for drainage. In this part of South Carolina the soil is mostly very dense red clay that is exceptionally difficult to work and can cause serious drainage issues. Simply growing vegetables in hay bales eliminates these problems. Because the plants are a couple of feet off of the ground, it also makes gardening much easier for the disabled, older gardeners, or just for those who want to avoid back pain. Hay bales are far, far less prone to weeds, and Bale Gardening devotees report fewer pest problems. This means that straw bale gardening makes organic or low-chemical gardening all the easier. A bale garden can be a great solution for that enemy of the gardener, the parking strip (or "hell strip," as many call it). It is also becoming popular in some cityscapes for rooftop and lot gardening.

How to Garden in Straw Bales:

1. Choose your Bales
Most straw bale gardeners recommend wheat straw, but I've heard of success with oat straw as well as mixed grass or alfalfa bales. Do not use pine straw. When choosing your bales you'll want them bound with synthetic twine, which won't rot and allow your planting bed to collapse (if you cannot find synthetic twine, you'll need to use some sort of stakes as support). Try to find older bales that have already begun rotting when you can, though not those that are so far gone as to have lost some of their structure.



Before you start the curing process, place your bales. They will be constantly wet once you start curing, and will be very heavy and difficult to move. Most bale gardeners prefer to have the bales oriented with the straw vertical for better root penetration, but this is a matter of preference

2. Cure your Bales
The curing process will take about ten days, or longer if you are not using chemicals. First, soak the bales and keep them wet for three days. On the fourth day sprinkle the bales lightly with about five ounces of ammonium nitrate. Continue soaking, and on the seventh day add another two and a half ounces of ammonium nitrate. Continue soaking, and on the tenth day add one cup of 13-13-13 or 10-10-10 fertilizer and water in.

To cure without chemicals, you may to keep the bales soaking for around three or four weeks to allow them to start breaking down. When you start to soak them, they will become noticeably warm or even hot. Do not plant until they have cooled down.

3. Plant
Most gardeners will want to use some soil for planting on the bales. A 2 or 3 inch layer of compost or potting soil on top of the bales should be sufficient, or you can cut quart-sized holes in the bales themselves with a keyhole saw and fill those with a mix of cool compost and soil. Many bale gardeners, though, prefer to use very little soil, and plant directly into the bales. To do so, simply split a crack to plant in with a prying instrument of some sort. Keep in mind, though, that without compost on the bales, you will need to use more artificial fertilizers.

Each bale should hold about two plants for most vegetables, such as tomatoes, squash, and cucumbers. More will usually fit well with smaller plants like peppers, greens, or herbs. I don't recommend bale growing with root crops, as the roots will be compressed by the straw and will be difficult to harvest. Very tall crops, such as corn or pole beans, will tip the bale over without some sort of support system. Smaller plants are easier to transplant into bales, so bale growers often transplant somewhat younger than soil gardeners.

4. Grow and Enjoy

Depending on what you're growing and how much fertilizer and compost you use on the bales, you may need to fertilize lightly throughout the growing season. Small amounts of artificial fertilizer should work, though I recommend a compost tea. Keep in mind that, unlike traditional gardening, your plants will be getting next to no nutrients other than what you add to the straw (though overfertilizing is often more dangerous for your plants than underfertilizing is). It is also very important to keep the bales moist throughout the growing season. The bales should retain water surprisingly well, and many gardeners report that they actually use significantly less water with straw bale gardening than they did with traditional methods, but you will certainly need to keep an eye on your plants to make sure that they don't dry out between waterings. One great thing about hay bale gardens is that you will probably not be able to overwater them, as they will allow the excess to drain right out.

You should be able to reuse your wheat straw bales for one year. After that you can compost them, or just break them up where they sit and put new bales over them. This will enrich the soil below and encourage worms to come in and improve it.
visit www.cookfromtheheart.com
frank
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May 29, 2011 4:35 PM CST
Name: Allison
NJ (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Forum moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Region: New Jersey Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1
it's the whole 3 - 4 weeks prep that turned me off.. but thanks for the info
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May 29, 2011 5:01 PM CST
Name: Teri
Mount Bethel, PA
Annuals Seed Starter Region: Pennsylvania Region: Northeast US Region: Mid-Atlantic Lilies
Hibiscus Echinacea I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Container Gardener Clematis Charter ATP Member
I visit Jessica's (Gardadore) garden. She does her tomatoes this way. Unbelievable success and she has it down pat.
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Sep 8, 2014 6:23 AM CST
Name: Ken Ramsey
Vero Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
Bromeliad Vegetable Grower Region: United States of America Tropicals Plumerias Orchids
Region: Mississippi Master Gardener: Mississippi Hummingbirder Cat Lover Composter Seller of Garden Stuff
I'll start it with this re-post.

drdawg said:
I also like that mix, at least for landscape plants. The mushroom compost is similar to Black Kow, which is naturally 1-1-1. The coconut shells (I am assuming they are chips or fiber plus the hardwood and sand give drainage (I use coarse perlite). The top soil retains moisture and would have micro-nutrients and perhaps organic (low-rate) fertilizer. Like Greene, for every 4 cf. of mixture I make, I add 1-2 cups of osmacote. If the plants grow best in neutral or slightly alkaline soil, lime would be added as well.
drdawg (Dr. Kenneth Ramsey)

The reason it's so hard to lose weight when you get up in age is because your body and your fat have become good friends.
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Sep 23, 2014 5:01 PM CST
Name: Kyla Houbolt
Gastonia, NC (Zone 7b)
Composter Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Herbs Daylilies Sempervivums
Frogs and Toads Container Gardener Cat Lover Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! The WITWIT Badge Winter Sowing
Oh good, I see this thread is going current. (Hi drdawg. Green Grin! )

I've been backreading here some about Pro-Mix and plan to check the local Home Depots for availability, because it sounds excellent. I have had a hard time finding potting mix and growing medium that does not contain some kind of chemical fertilizer (which I refuse to use and that's a whole other subject.) So... the local garden center does sell Black Gold in an organic version but it's not that wonderful for seed starting.

I used to get coir from Boca Bob -- I see him mentioned upthread too -- and not sure he is still around, so I was thinking of getting some from Gardener's Supply though I don't know what quality that is. (Coir used to be a mainstay for me with wintersowing and that's what I'm setting up to do right now.)

Eventually I'm hoping to make my own mixes again, which involves having compost and screening it, having vermiculite ( which I like better than perlite) and the coir -- as I recall that was a good basic combo.
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Sep 23, 2014 5:33 PM CST
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
Frugal Gardener Garden Procrastinator I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest
Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database.
I would love to find a consistent supply of coir that was mostly long, coarse fibers. I keep getting dust and chunks or random mixtures.

For me, vermiculite holds more water when I usually want my mixes to hold LESS water (or, at least, to hold more largish air spaces). So I use screened pine bark instead of vermiculite or Perlite or very much peat.

I don't recall seeing ANY professional seedling mixes at HD! But I'm prejudiced against my local HD for selling me some "mulch" that was just dirty logyard trash. Sticks and stones may break my bones, and I DON'T want them in my seedling mixes no matter how many times I screen them.

In WA state, there are many new stores for "hydroponic" and "indoor" gardeners.

They usually have bales of Pro-Mix, Sunshine and so on piled up to the ceiling. Your choice of with and without mycorrhizae, high porosity, high porosity/coir, low water retention, general purpose, organic, inoculants added, bio-fungicides added, etc. Hopefully one has no added nutrients.

http://www.pthorticulture.com/...

map of smaller distributors:
http://www.pthorticulture.com/...
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Sep 23, 2014 5:57 PM CST
Name: Kyla Houbolt
Gastonia, NC (Zone 7b)
Composter Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Herbs Daylilies Sempervivums
Frogs and Toads Container Gardener Cat Lover Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! The WITWIT Badge Winter Sowing
Would that I were still in Washington State! Well, not really, I do like it here, but it isn't quite the haven for serious gardeners that WA is!

I mentioned Home Depot only because when I googled Pro-Mix and checked for local sources, what came up were the two Home Depots close by. So next I have to try talking to them on the phone and see if I can connect with anyone who knows something.

Good point about the vermiculite holding more water. That's one thing the coir helps with is drainage. Boca Bob's stuff was fine but it was evenly fine, very nice quality.

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