If #1 is Lady Alice, then where's the papillae? Very heavy papillae is something Lady Alice is known for. How long are the pedicels? Is it fully reflexed? What does the foliage leading up to the scape look like? Lady Alice is a very broad and varied strain so darn near anything that looks like is called Lady Alice. We really need more pictures.
#2 is no more Mr. Cas than the man in the moon. It could be a cross from it; sometimes OT X T look like that. Or it could be an early stage Trumpet/Aurelian cross which also look like that. What does the reverse look like? And what do the physical characteristics of the overall plant look like; is it robust? Or frail? Again need more pictures.
