i did not want to hijack the topic but what 'I was trying to do was figure out if multiflora was a better rootstock for roses for my climate. I have not had much luck. I have said many times zone does not tell the entire story. We do not get a steady cold but a lot of freeze and thaw. 40s to 50s for a few days and rain, rain rain.....then temps drop to below freezing and the plants are in a block of ice and no snow cover.