Viewing post #268667 by Steve812

You are viewing a single post made by Steve812 in the thread called Rose ID.
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Jun 6, 2012 3:37 PM CST
Name: Steve
Prescott, AZ (Zone 7b)
Irises Lilies Roses Region: Southwest Gardening
I agree that there are hints of damask or rugosa heritage.

Is it fragrant? Does it repeat? Does it bear hips?

A vast majority of modern roses have leaves with smooth surfaces. It was the fine wrinkles that seemed distinctive to me, and the rounded form. Some of the old garden roses have leaves that possess texture and form similar to the ones above. I stumbled onto the centifolia Ispahan at HMF that does, for example. Autumn Damask has more texture. The roughness on rugosas is a lot rougher still. R. rugosa might convey subtle wrinkling to distant descendants. The hint of yellow in the flower suggests that the rose above must be from some time after the first decade of the twentieth century. The rose in question is shrubby and has foliage resembling an old rose, but it must be a modern one.

It seems to me I have seen a rose or two with distinctive sepals, but except for moss roses I cannot recall which one(s). I don't grow enough damasks to recognize long sepals as one of their distinctive characteristics: never noticed that feature on either Ispahan or La Ville Bruxelles. I now see that Autumn Damask appears to have long sepals. Except for moss roses, though, I generally don't think of sepals as being terribly helpful in rose ID. In Modern Roses 12, for example, I see sepals listed as being conspicuous for Crested Moss, but otherwise they seem generally not to be mentioned (even for Crested Sweetheart where they are also conspicuous.)

Morgengruss is characterized as a Kordesii shrub, so it has some rugosa lineage. I compared the leaves above to a number of shots of Morgengruss at HMF that showed leaves, and except for the bright green of new growth (above), I am hard pressed to find categorical differences. It's not that I'm sure that it actually is Morgengruss. I'm not. Morgengruss tends to display a flower more stiffly formal in form throughout its development. Still, I thought it was a pretty reasonable and defensible starting guess - at least in the absence of something better.

Another guess - a rose in this color and size range with big leaves - is Leander. But the form of Leander's blossom seems even further afield.

The thing is, there aren't a whole lot of shrub roses in this color range, are there?
When you dance with nature, try not to step on her toes.

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