Edit; clearly @char has some personal vendetta against Brad Best. I'd hoped the thread would remain on topic for cristate/bearded daylilies in cooler climates but it seems personal arrogance and/or pride is more important to her. Brad has asked me to delete the thread due to the personal attacks on him and I've told him no becaue I think there is valuable information in the thread. I've asked char to remove the personal attacks from the thread and she's said no. I expect better from moderators so I've reached out to the web moderator see if there is an unbiased higher authority to weigh in. Honestly @char you should be ashamed.

EDITED BY MODERATOR: After I locked this thread Chris came back and edited the first post to this thread on March 16, 2019 1:12pm with the comment above to get around the lock I placed to posting.
BRAD BEST was banned from this forum 8 years ago and will never be allowed to post here. So instead... he demands one of his followers do his dirty work for him. I'm not ashamed of anything and never will be. You came onto this website Chris and were welcomed by myself and other members. Sadly, this is the way the followers of BRAD BEST operate. BRAD BEST goes on the attack when anyone disagrees with him. He bully's and intimidates people, even moderators, so moderators will remove the offending posts or entire conversation of a discussion. Myself and others have seen it and been the recipients of this behavior and worse over and over for the past 10 years. NOT THIS TIME. I stand behind every post I made in this thread including the personal opinions and I have hundreds of documents to back up every word. Many of the members to this website and others have seen this behavior over and over on other internet social sites. Any member of the AHS Email Robin can search the archives and see the messages posted by BRAD BEST (if you don't know how tmail me). NGA members who were once a part of the wildly popular MyDaylilies site will remember the years of crazy rants that eventually chased people away. What was once a bustling hang out for everything and everyone daylilies... no longer exists. To those NGA members who have no clue of this battle, I truly am sorry to have to air this here, BUT this is "my turf" and BRAD BEST brought the fight to me personally. I will not sit back and take it. I owe it not only to myself but to every member who comes into the Daylily Forum to know that I WILL NOT stand for anyone being treated this way as long as I am moderator. (and control the magic buttons).
END of MODERATOR EDIT
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EDIT: Tet list is NOT complete! My main focus has been on diploid and I just haven't had time to maintain/update this list.

EDIT: Be warned there is some pollen sterility in the diploid bearded/cristate hybridized lines.

EDIT: Sculpted cristate is the currently recognized AHS definition for the appendages seen on "bearded" daylilies. There is some contention on this language with certain hybridizers. Because I want to be as impartial as possible I often try to refer to "bearded" daylilies as bearded/cristate in an attempt to make all parties happy. If you are searching for anything Brad Best online it will be under "bearded". On the AHS website and on here "cristate" will be the key to finding information.



Long post is long! Sorry I'm new and have been researching a bit about this, not sure if all in one post is appropriate or not.

I just got into daylilies two years ago but I've had a decent collection of Bearded Iris and other lilies in my gardens for a long time. My mother and grandmother were big fan's of bearded Iris's which I inherited! I'm a huge fan of the bearded daylilies since I discovered the massive variety of dayliles in the last year or so. I wasn't able to find a lot of centralized data about them though. It looks like Brad Best has spent a lot of time and energy developing these flowers but for those who are just starting out (like me) I thought I'd put together a list of bearded/cristate daylilies that I liked/that were within a beginners budget. I really appreciate Rich at CT Daylilies for exchanging multiple emails with me helping me get started in the right direction (and for offering great prices)!!! He also shared a picture of a beautiful bearded seedling that I hope will someday make it to market :)

TET- Tiki God, Sigourney(maybe?), Ohio Discovery- EV, Kendra Marie, Love never ends, Strikingly dramatic(maybe?), Snarky (EV-hansen 2016), Mr Tummus, Bonibrae Inner Demons (maybe)
DIP- Michaels's sword, texas feathered fancy, bees betty sue, shaggy pumpkin, bees bob baker, Greetings Earthling, Lavender Feathers, Wooster Mindcraft

Thanks to the Lily Auction I've been able to purchase some genetics whose parent plant is out of my budget or sold out;ex- Templar sword, lady patch and Emperor's crocodile. Currently Brad Best has some of his newer genetics available on the auction as well;W. Axl Rose (dip), Sweet (dip), and Blondie's Lipstik (dip -wow this is beautiful!).

Michael's sword was developed via BEE's BETTIE SUE' x 'LAVENDER BLUE BABY. Brad Best mentioned Barbra Mitchell have genetics that can produce beards. Joan Senior (one of Bee's Betty Sue's parents also likely has similar genetics). Parents of Emperor's Crocodile are (Pixie Pinwheel Party) x (Emerald Starburst).

DIP-
'Bee's Bettie Sue' (Downie, 1996) - (Joan Senior × Barbara Mitchell)
'Bee's Connie Sharron' (Downie, 1998) - (Joan Senior × Barbara Mitchell)
Crimson Enigma (Burkey, 2004) - (unknown × unknown)
Michael's Sword' (Best, 2005) - (Bee's Bettie Sue × Lavender Blue Baby)
Texas Feathered Fancy (Carpenter-J., 2006) - (Lavender Blue Baby × unknown)
Bee's Bob Baker (Downie, 2007) - (Bee's Bettie Sue × sdlg)
Dan Patch (Best, 2010) - (Michael's Sword × sdlg)
Kathy Nuttall (Daughety, 2011) - (sdlg × sdlg)
Lady Patch (Best, 2011) - (Michael's Sword × sdlg)
Greetings Earthling (Faulkner, 2011) - (Lavender Blue Baby × sdlg)
Wyatt's Eyes (Begnaud, 2011) - (sdlg × sdlg) *
Casa de Maas (Zidonis, 2013) - (sdlg HH2009 × Kindly Light)
Wooster Mindcraft (Elliott-J., 2015) - (Lavender Blue Baby × Caribbean Whipped Cream)*
Templar Sword (Best, 2015)- (Michael's Sword × sdlg)*
Ten Thousand Angels (Best, 2015) - (Michael's Sword × sdlg)
Immaculata (Best, 2015) - (Michael's Sword × sdlg)
Heaven (Best, 2015) - (Michael's Sword × sdlg)
Shroud of Turin (Best, 2015) - (Michael's Sword × sdlg)
Gladiator's Shield (Best, 2015) - (Michael's Sword × sdlg)
One Nation Under God (Best, 2015) - (Michael's Sword × sdlg)
Unknown Soldier (Best, 2015)- (Michael's Sword × sdlg)
Emperor's Crocodile (Gossard, 2016) - (Pixie Pinwheel Party × Emerald Starburst)
Lavender Feathers (Reeder, 2016) - (Texas Feathered Fancy × Lavender Blue Baby)*
W. Axl Rose (Best, 2016)- (Michael's Sword × Templar Sword)
Shake It Off (Best, 2016) - Michael's Sword × sdlg)
Pepperland (Best, 2016) - (Michael's Sword × sdlg)
Sweet (Best, 2016) - (Michael's Sword × sdlg)
Believe (Best, 2016) - (Michael's Sword × sdlg)
Man in the Mirror (Best, 2016) - (Michael's Sword × sdlg)
Anti-gravity (Best, 2016) - (Michael's Sword × sdlg)
Bearded Chameleon (Best, 2016) - (Michael's Sword × sdlg)
Beatlemania (Best, 2016) - (Michael's Sword × sdlg)
Blondie's Lipstick (Best, 2016) - (Michael's Sword × sdlg)
Kiss (Best, 2016) - (Michael's Sword × sdlg)
The Fab Four (Best, 2016)- (Michael's Sword × sdlg)
Two Headed Firedragon (Gossard, 2017) - (Red Scorpion × Heavenly Spider Monkey)


TET-
Added Attractions (Hanson-C., 2006) - (Instant Karma × Life on Bajore)
Biltmore Design (Hensley-D., 2010) - (Biltmore Style × Redbird Mary)
Appliqué Prism (Pierce-G., 2013) - (((sdlg × Tet. Terry Lyninger) × Tet. Malachite Prism) × Tet. Time Stopper)
Beach Sand (Gluck, 2013) - (Elizabeth Ann Gluck × Sherry Candy)
Beast of Bamburgh (Rich, 2014) - (Doc Webster × Heman)
After the Riot (Davisson-J., 2015) - (Little Big Ears × Sigourney)
'Beyond Origami' (Rich, 2016) - (West of the Moon × The Wonder Emporium)
A Different Kinda Buzz (Rich, 2016) - ((Man in the Maze × Jerry Hyatt) × In Taffeta Patterns)











I've also bought a few hybridized crosses with bearded genetics on facebook/LA that I'm looking forward to playing with.

Record keeping for beginners;
The thread "Daylily Record Keeping" in Daylilies forum

Searching on here led me to an article by Char;
https://garden.org/ideas/view/...
Additional info from Char;
http://www.daylilies.org/ahs_d...
http://www.daylilies.org/ahs_d...

Information on flowering oddities by Admmad.
The thread "Unidentified Flowering Oddities" in Daylilies forum

I'm not a geneticist but it appears that Lavender Baby Blue is an essential base plant for developing the beard (and an awesome parent wow 309 registered offspring!).



If anyone wanted to share some of their trials or experiences with bearded daylily hybridization I'd love to hear. Any experience with bearded genetics in the north would be appreciated as well. It appears most of the older dip bearded genetics I'll be playing with are dormant and shouldn't have issues here in Wisconsin. If anyone had dip or tet bearded plants they thought I should add to my list please post so I can update this list for anyone starting out and interested in the bearded look!

End long post :)
Chris
@char

*disclaimer*[I had contacted Brad Best about his website not being updated as I was interested in some older bearded genetics which I was hoping would be more affordable, and to see how his program and grown and developed. He said he didn't have plans for updating as of now and was working on selling his new genetics which I understand. I also inquired about older A, B, and C listed seeds he had for sale on his facebook page and was told they were no longer available]

Good luck with your program! Not to start a war on semantics because it can be a contentious subject, but if you're searching for cultivars in the AHS registration database or anything derived from it, the term "bearded" is not used because the AHS does not recognize it for daylilies. That's because it is an established botanical term that doesn't fit daylilies, at least not yet (basically it means having hairs). In the AHS they would be registered as cristate.

On another note, dormancy does not automatically convey hardiness, and evergreen does not necessarily imply tenderness. Also a daylily may behave differently in different climates as far as foliage habit is concerned. I have southern registered evergreens that set dormant buds in winter here in Zone 4, and emerge with the typical "spear" shoots. I also have evergreens that just do the mush thing, die back completely, and then continue growing where they left off come spring. They're all equally hardy and we don't always get much snow cover here (although we're getting some right now as I type this!). Where the plant was hybridized may convey more about its potential hardiness than foliage habit.

I briefly had 'Texas Feathered Fancy' but it did not make it through its first winter here, sadly. That doesn't necessarily mean it woudn't survive for someone else in a cold winter area but is just my experience.

Part of the difficulty with your search for cristate forms may be linked to the terminology you are using. This Form of daylily is recognized as Sculpted cristate.
http://www.daylilies.org/ahs_d...
http://www.daylilies.org/ahs_d...

As Sue said beard is not a recognized term used with daylilies, it is botanically incorrect. That said I have seen the term beard used as a descriptive term for Sculpted cristates by some people even though it is incorrect.
http://www.daylilies.org/ahs_d...
Cristation, or crested would be correct descriptive terms to use.

While Lavender Blue Baby appears to be able to express cristation when used in some crosses, there are a majority of the 309 child plants that do not show or produce any characteristics seen in Sculpted forms. I wouldn't consider it a base plant for getting Sculpted cristates, but it may be useful in crosses.
Sigourney - cristate
Strikingly Dramatic - cristate, tender in the north
Aqua Tech - No, not cristate. Aqua Tech is pleated, but could work well with cristates.
Texas Feathered Fancy - cristate, although Sue has lost it I have had it growing in my zone 4 garden for a number of years.
Midrib cristation is the simplest variation of the cristate form. More complex variations can be seen in combination with pleated or relief subforms, all three Sculpted subforms work well crossed together.

To help with your search for cristates you can search the database here for Sculpted cristate forms by going into the Daylily database and clicking the Search By Characteristics link.
The Daylilies Database

Scroll down to Bloom Form and check the Sculpted Cristate box. Scroll back to the top and click Search. This will take you to a page with 109 Sculpted cristates, both tet and dip.

I would add a few things to your list, and strike some others.

Tet - I would look at Snarky from Dan Hanson. It is relatively new so it might be somewhat more expensive, but I would add that before Strikingly Dramatic. SD, while it has survived for me, does little of the cristating. Another to think about is Bonibrae Inner Demons. I think (and this is purely opinion/speculation) the teeth it can throw in the throat would be very advantageous to the form you would like. I grow Mr. Tumnus - I have had it since introduction and have made exactly 0 seeds with it. You might ask others like Rich if he has had any luck.

Dips... Bee's Bettie Sue and Bees Bob Baker are nice but around here they are very very inconsistent. I would add something like Wooster Mindcraft over either of them. Shaggy Pumpkin is very nice - not always very shaggy, but I've been using it to try and add size back into some of the other lines.

sooby said:Good luck with your program! Not to start a war on semantics because it can be a contentious subject, but if you're searching for cultivars in the AHS registration database or anything derived from it, the term "bearded" is not used because the AHS does not recognize it for daylilies. That's because it is an established botanical term that doesn't fit daylilies, at least not yet (basically it means having hairs). In the AHS they would be registered as cristate.

On another note, dormancy does not automatically convey hardiness, and evergreen does not necessarily imply tenderness. Also a daylily may behave differently in different climates as far as foliage habit is concerned. I have southern registered evergreens that set dormant buds in winter here in Zone 4, and emerge with the typical "spear" shoots. I also have evergreens that just do the mush thing, die back completely, and then continue growing where they left off come spring. They're all equally hardy and we don't always get much snow cover here (although we're getting some right now as I type this!). Where the plant was hybridized may convey more about its potential hardiness than foliage habit.

I briefly had 'Texas Feathered Fancy' but it did not make it through its first winter here, sadly. That doesn't necessarily mean it woudn't survive for someone else in a cold winter area but is just my experience.

Thank you! Any input is appreciated and everyone has more experience with daylilies than me. I'll have to keep the foliage habitat in mind when I'm looking for plants to expand my collection. The foliage habitat is really confusing and it's hard to find a lot of information on how daylilies perform in different zones.

Char said:Part of the difficulty with your search for cristate forms may be linked to the terminology you are using. This Form of daylily is recognized as Sculpted cristate.
http://www.daylilies.org/ahs_d...
http://www.daylilies.org/ahs_d...

As Sue said beard is not a recognized term used with daylilies, it is botanically incorrect. That said I have seen the term beard used as a descriptive term for Sculpted cristates by some people even though it is incorrect.
http://www.daylilies.org/ahs_d...
Cristation, or crested would be correct descriptive terms to use.

While Lavender Blue Baby appears to be able to express cristation when used in some crosses, there are a majority of the 309 child plants that do not show or produce any characteristics seen in Sculpted forms. I wouldn't consider it a base plant for getting Sculpted cristates, but it may be useful in crosses.
Sigourney - cristate
Strikingly Dramatic - cristate, tender in the north
Aqua Tech - No, not cristate. Aqua Tech is pleated, but could work well with cristates.
Texas Feathered Fancy - cristate, although Sue has lost it I have had it growing in my zone 4 garden for a number of years.
Midrib cristation is the simplest variation of the cristate form. More complex variations can be seen in combination with pleated or relief subforms, all three Sculpted subforms work well crossed together.

To help with your search for cristates you can search the database here for Sculpted cristate forms by going into the Daylily database and clicking the Search By Characteristics link.
The Daylilies Database

Scroll down to Bloom Form and check the Sculpted Cristate box. Scroll back to the top and click Search. This will take you to a page with 109 Sculpted cristates, both tet and dip.

Sculpted cristate definitely narrows it down. Thank you for the tip on looking for bloom form, I was poking around on the search function and didn't find that last night. What would you consider a base plant for developing the sculpted cristate? Michael's sword was one I felt I had to have. I wanted to play with diploids since there is so much less genetic variability than any of the tet options.

JWWC said:I would add a few things to your list, and strike some others.

Tet - I would look at Snarky from Dan Hanson. It is relatively new so it might be somewhat more expensive, but I would add that before Strikingly Dramatic. SD, while it has survived for me, does little of the cristating. Another to think about is Bonibrae Inner Demons. I think (and this is purely opinion/speculation) the teeth it can throw in the throat would be very advantageous to the form you would like. I grow Mr. Tumnus - I have had it since introduction and have made exactly 0 seeds with it. You might ask others like Rich if he has had any luck.

Dips... Bee's Bettie Sue and Bees Bob Baker are nice but around here they are very very inconsistent. I would add something like Wooster Mindcraft over either of them. Shaggy Pumpkin is very nice - not always very shaggy, but I've been using it to try and add size back into some of the other lines.

Thank you! For now I'm going to stick with diploids. I don't have a lot of room or time (two kids under three) so for now I thought I'd stay simple.

My dip bearded/sculpted cristate daylilies I'm expecting in Spring are; Lady Patch, You Can Dance, Michael's sword, Bee's Betty Sue, and Texas Feathered Fancy. Also getting a few fans of Lavender Baby Blue from a local to add to my variety.

Crosses I'll be trying include;
Michael's Sword X Emperor's Crocodile
Malachite Sunbird x Emperors Crocodile
Michaels Sword x Cliffjumper
Flash Forward x Lady Patch
Green Rainbow x Templar Sword (Thanks JWWC )

This will be my second year with seeds (1st year I did my own hybridizing, didn't find the daylily community until this year). Buying on the Daylily Auction is a little addicting..

My 3 y/o enjoys getting to plant and play in the garden. He got pretty good at hybridizing this summer. Can't wait to start some seeds with him in a few months

Started to go through the list of sculpted cristate daylilies. Bums me out the lack of pictures with names. Thank you for uploading as many pictures as you have Char :). I did find one I was looking for more information on, Can't seem to find the much information for this flower or a website for this hybridizer.

http://www.daylilies.org/Dayli...

You're welcome. The list of plants you have coming in spring is looking good. There are more options working with the tets, but narrowing it down to diploids will make it easier to focus and save space. Once you get sdlgs to work with you'll be on your way. I've heard both Emperor's Crocodile and Wooster Mindcraft are tender in the north. Wooster Mindcraft was new this summer, we'll see if it is still here in the spring.

Ken Begnaud is in Louisiana. I think he did have a website at one time, but it doesn't look like he's registered anything since 2011. The same year he registered Wyatt's Eyes.

Yes, the Lily Auction is addicting. The "watch" button gets me in trouble. If I don't watch something I tend to forget about it. Watching means I can check it...several times a day.

The local hybridizers both recommended I have a narrow focus for what I want to achieve with hybridizing. For now I just want pretty flowers

@char do you have a blog / follow a blog that discusses the hardiness of certain flowers? I happened to see a thread about the hardiness of Emperor's Crocodile on here but without you or JWWC mentioning northern hardiness I may have bought something with poor suitability up here! Thank you for the info on Mr. Begnaud as well.

I've never really participated in auctions so that aspect is quite engaging too. Told myself no more seeds, watching is okay but not bidding!

I'll be pressed for space this spring if I get decent germination on seeds but hoping I can convince the wife to let me turn parts of the lawn into beds. Hoping to track it on here. Really like how much information can be recorded on this site!

I would go with Michaels Sword and see what you get because it is stable. David Robinson used MS with Super fancy face and got something good in the first generation.

You can also go back to Lavender Blue Baby and If you cross it with the right plants you may get something good. I studied what to cross LBB with. Here is one example http://petalpusher.plantfans.c...

If you've been in touch with local hybridizers there may not be anything new for you in the link below but, just in case, here is the page for your AHS Region:

http://www.daylilies.org/AHSre...

This is a seedling of mine. Its a cristate. A sib of this one has a beard. The sib never open properly this summer because it's substance is heavy.

@spiderjoe
Do you grow Michael's Sword? If you do, how consistent is it?

spiderjoe said:I would go with Michaels Sword and see what you get because it is stable. David Robinson used MS with Super fancy face and got something good in the first generation.

You can also go back to Lavender Blue Baby and If you cross it with the right plants you may get something good. I studied what to cross LBB with. Here is one example http://petalpusher.plantfans.c...

That's awesome thanks for sharing. I'm really curious why LBB has such a low expression rate or if it's just people thought plants with that expression were garbage?

That looks like a very nice double Joe. There doesn't appear to be cristation on the petals in the image only cresting on the extra segments. Do you have an image showing cristation on the petals? Sculpted and Double are two different Forms of daylilies. Sculpted cristate forms are single flowers, the cristation is on the petals of the second floral whorl. A Double form is a double flower with extra whorls of segments or petaloid stamens To be both a Sculpted cristate form and a Double form the flower would need cristation on the petals of the second whorl and also have extra floral whorls and/or petaloid stamens.

Chris, I don't have a blog or follow one on hardiness of certain daylilies. A lot is simply trial and error. This forum is a great resource to ask hardiness questions as well. The members are always willing to give their thoughts on a cultivar, good or bad. You can check the Daylily of the Day threads too. If a plant has been featured as a DotD it will appear in the upper right corner of that plants page in the database. We also have a quick link here in the forum on the right side in the Welcome to the Dayliles Forum box. There you will see some links listed. One is Daylily of the Day Archive.

Good luck convincing your wife into letting you dig up more lawn! Once she sees all your pretty seedlings it shouldn't be to hard. Plus it's a wonderful way to spend time your little one, what a cutie.

@Cpschult I have grown LBB for fifteen years and have never seen any cresting on it so I would say that it never expresses. LBB may or may not actually have a mutation for cresting.
Cresting is a genetic effect that suffers from what is called incomplete penetrance and variable expressivity. Some plants that have the appropriate genetics to show the effect will never show it and others will show it sometimes and in different manners. What it basically means is that the visible cresting effect is very strongly determined by the environment and any number of other genes present (and possibly different) in each individual.
LBB may have a mutation for cresting but the rest of its genotype prevents it being shown or it might be the exact opposite in that LBB may not have the mutation but it has the necessary genotype to allow cresting to be expressed more frequently in the seedlings produced when LBB is crossed with a plant that does have the mutation.

'Wyatt's Eyes' was registered with the seedling number LBB F2 04. My interpretation of that seedling number is that LBB stands for 'Lavender Blue Baby' and the cross that produced 'Wyatt's Eyes' was an F2 cross.
So 'Wyatt's Eyes' would be ('Lavender Blue Baby' x daylily Z) X ('Lavender Blue Baby' x daylily Z). Quite possibly a self-pollination of ('Lavender Blue Baby' x daylily Z).
'Wyatt's Eyes' looks very much like 'Lavender Blue Baby' except for the cresting.

sooby said:If you've been in touch with local hybridizers there may not be anything new for you in the link below but, just in case, here is the page for your AHS Region:

http://www.daylilies.org/AHSre...

Thank you! One of the locals actually happens to be heavily involved in the South East Wisconsin Daylily Society. They mentioned it might be worth my time to join either the local or national chapters but I don't have much free time. I've attached the local auction and the wisconsin daylily society auction the last two years. Stumbling into the southeast daylily society sale while burning time waiting for an appointment is what actually sparked my interest!

admmad said:'Wyatt's Eyes' was registered with the seedling number LBB F2 04. My interpretation of that seedling number is that LBB stands for 'Lavender Blue Baby' and the cross that produced 'Wyatt's Eyes' was an F2 cross.
So 'Wyatt's Eyes' would be ('Lavender Blue Baby' x daylily Z) X ('Lavender Blue Baby' x daylily Z). Quite possibly a self-pollination of ('Lavender Blue Baby' x daylily Z).
'Wyatt's Eyes' looks very much like 'Lavender Blue Baby' except for the cresting.

That would actually be quite funny Either way I'm going to see if I can find a clump to play with. Thank you for your thoughts on the seedling number. It's not something I would have looked at.

admmad said:@Cpschult I have grown LBB for fifteen years and have never seen any cresting on it so I would say that it never expresses. LBB may or may not actually have a mutation for cresting.
Cresting is a genetic effect that suffers from what is called incomplete penetrance and variable expressivity. Some plants that have the appropriate genetics to show the effect will never show it and others will show it sometimes and in different manners. What it basically means is that the visible cresting effect is very strongly determined by the environment and any number of other genes present (and possibly different) in each individual.
LBB may have a mutation for cresting but the rest of its genotype prevents it being shown or it might be the exact opposite in that LBB may not have the mutation but it has the necessary genotype to allow cresting to be expressed more frequently in the seedlings produced when LBB is crossed with a plant that does have the mutation.

Are you a plant biologist? Curious if there was any basic research you would recommend reading for this. I have a biology degree but that was over 10 years ago and I've worked in quality since then. I need to get back to my biology roots I need to figure out an easy way to track crosses and results via excel. I've seen some good reviews on plantstep but not sure how serious I want to get lol... Guess if I'm talking about tracking in excel I'm already pretty serious.

I jumped the gun my seedling does not have cresting at the midrib.

I have plantstep , but every time I use it I can not get into it. I added plants but have not done much with it. Plants from the last two years have not been added into the program so plantstep is basically useless for for.