very interesting points, James.
It seems that reputation has a lot to do with how easily one can sell either seeds or plants. Looking at the Flourishing Daylilies (Ansari) listings on the fb sales page, it seems that her offerings sell out almost immediately. The prices range from cheap to rather expensive... Counting up on my fingers and toes this morning, it looked like yesterday she may have sold between $800-$1000 worth of plants. And she has been doing it consistently. I believe she grows in pots exclusively, somewhat simplifying the process.

Now, she has a strong following. Some of the others selling through catalogs also have loyal repeat customers and so can count on moving X amount of plants. If you know that, then you can make a business plan.

"but was diverted, then forced to fly naked to another state in order to complete its mission."

I think the growers mostly realize they are creating a new and future market by having the cheaper older daylilies for sale. Not many people start out their daylily obsession with a purchase of a group of $100-$200 dollar intros. Actually, probably the great majority of people who grow daylilies as a hobby never buy a single new intro. I can see how once a grower builds up a reputation for being a great hybridizer they could make a decent living selling expensive new intros and continuing to sell them as they aged down to the
$25.00 level. It seems that by the time most people reach that level of success it is time to start thinking of retiring and hoping to be able to sell the business.

As a sometime seller on the Lily Auction and from my catalog, I will almost always try to give an OPTIONAL bonus. (I do not promise one). I try to take into consideration what the person has bought when I choose bonus fan(s) and or plants. I have given 100% bonus of my new or recent intros with purchase of one of my new intros because I really appreciate people wanting to buy one of them. I try to be generous with the percentage value of bonus plants vs. money spent on purchases.

That being said, I also have to take into consideration what it is that I have to spare from my backyard garden and I do not have rows and rows of stock plants lined out so it's difficult to let people make a wish list but I do appreciate suggestions of the type of things they might hope to receive. Many people are very gracious and say something to the effect that if you do give a bonus, I would like this type of plant. A few people even say please don't sent a bonus as I don't have room.

I imagine people are buying my daylilies because they want to grow those daylilies, not because they think I will send the perfect bonus plants (though one always hopes, of course).

You can't please all the people all the time, but I think a lot of sellers try to do their best. IT'S A GIFT!

END OF VENTING ON THE SUBJECT

Great point Daylily99. James you are a funny man in a honest way

daylilly99 said:As a sometime seller on the Lily Auction and from my catalog, I will almost always try to give an OPTIONAL bonus. (I do not promise one). I try to take into consideration what the person has bought when I choose bonus fan(s) and or plants. I have given 100% bonus of my new or recent intros with purchase of one of my new intros because I really appreciate people wanting to buy one of them. I try to be generous with the percentage value of bonus plants vs. money spent on purchases.

That being said, I also have to take into consideration what it is that I have to spare from my backyard garden and I do not have rows and rows of stock plants lined out so it's difficult to let people make a wish list but I do appreciate suggestions of the type of things they might hope to receive. Many people are very gracious and say something to the effect that if you do give a bonus, I would like this type of plant. A few people even say please don't sent a bonus as I don't have room.

I imagine people are buying my daylilies because they want to grow those daylilies, not because they think I will send the perfect bonus plants (though one always hopes, of course).

You can't please all the people all the time, but I think a lot of sellers try to do their best. IT'S A GIFT!

END OF VENTING ON THE SUBJECT

I appreciate that, and sure your customers do too! I should have been more clear in my post but I was trying not to name names.

This was a large daylily farm, with an extensive website and high online and in person sales, NOT a LA grower/seller with a backyard garden! I feel like now folks think I'm a...what were the words...ungrateful wretch!

I'm not. I actually don't expect bonuses from the two LA sellers I have orders with, but they'll be accepted with gracious thanks if I get them...no matter what they are.

I hope you will understand where I was coming from. I've only received one set of daylilies from an LA seller so far...and I loved all of them.

Seedfork said:I think the growers mostly realize they are creating a new and future market by having the cheaper older daylilies for sale. Not many people start out their daylily obsession with a purchase of a group of $100-$200 dollar intros. Actually, probably the great majority of people who grow daylilies as a hobby never buy a single new intro.

Precisely. Thank you.

JamesT said:
...if the bonus was on my (carefully crafted) list at all, I'm pleased to get it. If I really have my heart set on one of them, I've learned to add it to the order.

...that's one thing, but, properly digging, dividing, cleaning, and packing four sub-$15 daylilies and driving them to the post office is almost not worth the trouble, from a labor vs. return viewpoint. (Factor in water, fertilizer, nursery certification and inspections, as well as PayPal, bank card and auction fees etc.)
When someone orders even more sub-$15 daylilies, that doesn't really help them shake the feeling that they're working for far less than minimum wage.

I get your point, I really do. However, some of us aren't in a position to afford more than...as you put it...sub-$15 plants. If an online merchant of any kind...huge farm or backyard seller...is too financially put out by selling low-cost cultivars to make a profit, then he or she should pack it in and just stop. Or, even better, compost those sub-$15 cultivars that so eat into their profit and stop selling them.

As far as carefully crafted lists go, if my order is only a certain amount and I'm told the bonus is for a certain percentage of that order, I'm not going to ask for a hundred dollar daylily. I'm going to scour the list of offerings until I find a few that fit that price range. I'm going to ask for daylilies that meet or are below that percentage. And...if one is not spending a lot to begin with, the options are limited.

I'm sorry for reacting so strongly. I was hurt, but now I'm angry. I express a negative opinion one time, and I get pig-piled. I work really hard for the pittance I make. I choose to spend quite a bit of it on these plants, because they're beautiful and my neighbors and I enjoy seeing them every day for months.

Sheesh. I even made a point of saying I'd learned my lesson...key word LEARNED. I'm new to this, and I'm not psychic about how things work.

So...I'm out, and for a while. Have fun, peeps.

Ken, I personally believe that you took it the wrong way. I don't believe that it was anyone's intention to diparage you in any way. Please accept our sincere apologies if you feel that way. Let's start over, please! I personally enjoy your comments and point of views.
Not to mention your pictures and sense of humor. We are not going to agree on everything. I have accepted that fact. We are here for one common goal. That is to share our love of gardening. If we make a few friends along the way that is a win win. Every once in awhile someone might step on a toe, that's what forgiveness is all about. Here's the deal, take the weekend off and report to class
here on Monday or a day of your choosing. Deal ?

I appreciate you Ken...I haven't been able to purchase any new intros because my pocket book doesn't have nearly the good sense of humor I'd like it too. It doesn't have a lick of magic either.

It doesn't bother me.

But...I am extremely grateful and enormously blessed for what I do have. I get a whole growing season of enjoyment from my bargain basement purchases. One would think that would be enough joy. Then there's quite a few good hearted people (I call Daylily Angels), who, by their grace offer some coveted beauty to me for free or for postage. This is where the magic lives and I'm going to perpetuate that magic for others. I want others to feel what I've felt.

Bonus plants are never even considered when I buy. And I don't ever leave a hint/list. I have no idea how it became common practice to expect a "business" to include freebies in every order?? Having said that, I do appreciate the extra fans that Abundant Daylilies has sent. Woodhenge always sends gorgeous bonuses, that generally work out well here. I received a bunch of seedlings one year with my Smokey's Daylilies order. Since Ploidy was unknown, I had no use for them and they were discarded. But those might have made someone's day. And any extra you receive represents lost revenue for the seller. This was a silly post, in my humble opinion. Bound to make the sellers on here defensive. Just stirring the pot. Why?

Children! Children! We can't all agree on everything! How boring would this place be!?! If everyone agreed with everyone, we'd never learn a single new thing!

Mr. Dickie, how old are you? How do you manage a classroom full of students without getting your feelings hurt? I've read and re-read every comment on this thread and not seen a single oink or squeal.

Jeez! What is this, the swan song thread?

This thread should be moved closer to the website exit, and we should have a parting gift basket ready for any poor soul that is silly enough to enter it! I've been in haunted houses that were less scary!

Bonus plants and seeds....yikes! Who ever came up with this particular practice should be whipped with a limp sculpted crispy thinger...lol.

My take....and I have been on both sides of this bonus issue. I think if you are a seller, and you state in your selling that a bonus will be given based on a certain percentage of a purchase, and ask for suggestions, then you are asking for trouble. When a bonus is based on a percentage, it's like it really isn't a bonus anymore, but part of the original purchase. It's kind of like if you buy two rolls of paper towels, you get the second roll for half off. You, the seller, have made it "thing", given it a "value" and have even asked for "suggestions". What could possibly go wrong...lol?

I remember when I started selling seeds many years ago. The originator of seed selling on the LA was a fine gentleman with an alias of "akinback". A dear friend! He came up with the original idea. His crosses were hilariously odd, in that he gave them zero consideration, and crossed anything with everything. He gave two or three extra seeds of the purchased cross as a bonus. When I started selling, he thought I was nuts for putting in other crosses as bonuses and that it would end up biting me at some point. It hasn't yet, but I do it because I know that all of the purchased seeds will most likely not germinate, and I am just trying to cover the purchase if something goes wrong. But, while I do like giving bonus seeds, I do know at this point in my selling career, that there is an expectation that they had better be pretty good. My own fault? In some ways it is, but it is also very strange that bonus things take up much discussion at all.

For me, most bonuses that I have been given have been discarded, seeds or plants. It is nice when I get extra fans of a purchase, but other than that I just don't have the room to keep them. I don't think less of the seller because I choose not to keep them, and I don't throw/ give them away because I am loaded with cash (I am a lowly seed seller, remember). I don't have the room and most likely, they aren't exactly what I was looking for, otherwise I would have bought it.

As a seller, I don't mind suggestions for bonuses, but really prefer to just wing it on my own, since so much of what I give away for free is based on what I have that day. It is not based on a percentage of the purchase...it is a gift freely given. If the buyer chooses not to plant them, I understand.

Get my exit gift basket ready, because I'm sure I have offended somebody...lol.

"whipped with a limp sculpted crispy thinger"

I think that's happened to me a couple of times!

Mary was it Steve ??
Someone show Steve the door
I don't think you can go wrong with one or two extra seeds of the same cross. That's how Justsue does it. Some try to match extras with your purchase choices. I am ok whichever way it goes. Received these from Markarmand yesterday

Slipping under the radar with some nice crosses at undiscoverable prices. Try saying that three times fast I got my second package from my name sake yesterday aka Gramps. I didn't open it last night. Had Valentine's stuff to do after work

Ooops! Just realized that it sounded like I was critical of Ken's post. Nope. I meant the thread. Sorry, Ken. Starting a thread to whine about "gifts" is just poor form. Reminds me why I got out of the Christmas buying for several ingrates this year. Not worth my time.

Can I make suggestions of what I get in my parting gift basket, Mike?

Ahead said:This thread should be moved closer to the website exit,

Amen!

Ahead said:and we should have a parting gift basket ready for any poor soul that is silly enough to enter it!

And, yet, here I go

@MrKGDickie
Ken - I hope you don't stay away for long. As a daylily-noob, I'm hungry to learn. As an introvert (half a step from falling off the Myers-Briggs' cliff), I seldom post. I've lost track of the number of questions you've asked that I, too, have wondered about. If you increase that value by a factor of 10 or so, and you might get close to the number of times you've asked about something I didn't know I didn't know.

Come on Ken, I think Tina's post is pretty much saying the same for other posts on here, not directed at your post in particular but more of a general information and post of how they feel about bonus plants and seeds. I had to go back and read all the posts a couple of times just to try and find what you found so upsetting and thought was directed at you personally. I thought maybe I had overlooked a post somewhere along the way.
I just want to say that the way we look at bonus plants or seeds often has a lot to do with how long we have been into daylilies. I well remember being so excited to get bonus plants...I did't even know they existed, so I was thrilled.
Now I have become pretty limited in what I would like as a bonus plant, not nearly so interested to increase the numbers anymore. After spending hours researching plants and finally making a decision I would much prefer an extra fan of the plants ordered over a plant I had not requested. I have come to realize each plant is a commitment to more time and energy spent, more fertilizer, more water, more insect and disease battles and more space to create. Now that I am creating my on seedlings "bonus plants" have really lost all their excitement...except in the rare case when it is one actually on my "Want" list, then I get very excited!

"Can I make suggestions of what I get in my parting gift basket, Mike?"

Yes, please! I think we'd all be fascinated!