Plant ID forum: Please ID these plants.

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Name: Arif Masud
Alpha Centauri (Zone 9a)
Native Plants and Wildflowers I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar Container Gardener Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Enjoys or suffers hot summers Multi-Region Gardener
KAMasud
Oct 17, 2012 9:20 AM CST
Thumb of 2012-10-17/KAMasud/2866a8
Thumb of 2012-10-17/KAMasud/db9b2d
Thumb of 2012-10-17/KAMasud/ea6dbb
It is some kind of Acacia but thornless. My idea.
Thumb of 2012-10-17/KAMasud/6740a0
Thumb of 2012-10-17/KAMasud/31725d
Thumb of 2012-10-17/KAMasud/077371
This one flowers in April, May, June when the earth is parched. Heavenly scent at sunrise, dissipates as the day heats up.
Regards,
Masud.
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
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JRsbugs
Oct 17, 2012 9:50 AM CST
Acacia nilotica is widely grown in Sindh province if that is where they are..

http://www.memoireonline.com/03/10/3207/m_Marketing-of-agrof...

Acacia nilotica is a tree 5–20 m high with a dense spheric crown, stems and branches usually dark to black coloured, fissured bark, grey-pinkish slash, exuding a reddish low quality gum. The tree has thin, straight, light, grey spines in axillary pairs, usually in 3 to 12 pairs, 5 to 7.5 cm (3 in) long in young trees, mature trees commonly without thorns. The leaves are bipinnate, with 3-6 pairs of pinnulae and 10-30 pairs of leaflets each, tomentose, rachis with a gland at the bottom of the last pair of pinnulae. Flowers in globulous heads 1.2-1.5 cm in diameter of a bright golden-yellow color, set up either axillary or whorly on peduncles 2–3 cm long located at the end of the branches. Pods are strongly constricted, hairy, white-grey, thick and softly tomentose


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acacia_nilotica

http://www.kew.org/plants-fungi/Acacia-nilotica.htm

http://botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/a/acaci006.html

[Last edited by JRsbugs - Oct 17, 2012 9:54 AM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #319084 (2)
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
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JRsbugs
Oct 17, 2012 10:02 AM CST
The seed pods of Acacia nilotica are constricted, I wonder if this only happens when the seeds are mature?

http://www.tropicalforages.info/key/Forages/Media/Html/Acaci...

This may be the answer:

Nine sub-species are recognised. Hybridization between the various ssp. occurs and has been influenced by human's seed dispersal. Within the A. nilotica complex the pods are very variable.


http://pages.bangor.ac.uk/~afs101/iwpt/web-sp1.htm

http://www.winrock.org/fnrm/factnet/factpub/FACTSH/A_nilotic...
[Last edited by JRsbugs - Oct 17, 2012 10:08 AM (+)]
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Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
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JRsbugs
Oct 17, 2012 10:11 AM CST
Acacia nilotica ssp. hemispherica?

fruit almost straight or slightly wavy


http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=2...

Name: Arif Masud
Alpha Centauri (Zone 9a)
Native Plants and Wildflowers I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar Container Gardener Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Enjoys or suffers hot summers Multi-Region Gardener
KAMasud
Oct 17, 2012 12:44 PM CST
Janet then what is this?


Thumb of 2012-10-17/KAMasud/5230f1
and i can assure you that the above has thorns 2 to 3 inches long, nasty very nasty. Mine has none.
"Distribution: Confined mostly to the edges of dried stream beds near Paradise Point and adjoining areas, c. 15 miles from Karachi proper."
That above reported position is Sindh. Sindh is at sea level, winters are mild while summers are in a way pleasant (sea breeze). That above plant is at 4500 feet, winters are minus 5c and summers touch 50c. Some variation in Nilotica is there according to terrain.
Now check these two names " Paraserianthes", "Albizia". It seems Acacia has branched off into "Wattle". Let me know what you make of it.

The above one is Acacia modesta and it to has short stubby thorns.
Regards,
Masud.
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
Image
JRsbugs
Oct 17, 2012 1:06 PM CST
Masud, look at description which I quoted in my first post, where I bolded the words "mature trees commonly without thorns".

I have always known Acacia commonly called "Wattle", I grew up in Australia and that was many years ago now!

In one of the links I provided above, it says "A. nilotica occurs from sea level to over 2000 m. It withstands extremes of temperature (-1 to 50?C)," in the following link which provides much information.

http://www.winrock.org/fnrm/factnet/factpub/FACTSH/A_nilotic...


" Paraserianthes" and "Albizia" have similar looking leaves, the flowers are different.

Your Acacia could be another species but Acacia nilotica is the only one which commonly comes up in a google search, although I have found other species mentioned there is little information and no photos. The flower form of yours certainly matches that of A. nilotica, although they look paler yellow, and if mature trees can be thornless there is a very good chance it is that.
Name: Arif Masud
Alpha Centauri (Zone 9a)
Native Plants and Wildflowers I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar Container Gardener Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Enjoys or suffers hot summers Multi-Region Gardener
KAMasud
Oct 17, 2012 8:58 PM CST
http://www.tropicos.org/RankBrowser.aspx?letter=1&ranklevel=...

There are 26 Acacias reported if you open the link in your browser. A single photograph would have been worth reams of paper/data. Acacia nilotica, even if you blindfold me i would recognise. As to thorns on nilotica, thats old growth which sheds but fresh has thorns. In Flickr enter "Flora Indica" you will see all shapes of Nilotica.
In Monsoons when snakes get flooded out they will climb Modesta but never Nilotica or they become ant bait on injury.
Wattles and Mesquite and Acacia, Australian meat trade/ wheat trade a retired old sea dog.
Regards,
Masud.
Name: Arif Masud
Alpha Centauri (Zone 9a)
Native Plants and Wildflowers I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar Container Gardener Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Enjoys or suffers hot summers Multi-Region Gardener
KAMasud
Oct 17, 2012 10:52 PM CST
Janet, you might spend awhile on Flickr the way the flora has been misidentified. Whistling
Regards,
Masud.
Name: Arif Masud
Alpha Centauri (Zone 9a)
Native Plants and Wildflowers I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar Container Gardener Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Enjoys or suffers hot summers Multi-Region Gardener
KAMasud
Oct 18, 2012 2:51 AM CST
Acacia gageana.
Acacia filicioides.Acacia angustissima. I like the seed pods of this one.
Acacia decurrens.
Acacia catechu.
There are 1600 siblings of Acacia. The above i have narrowed down from shape of seed pod but do concentrate on the last one. The terrain suits it the most.
Regards,
Masud.
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
Image
JRsbugs
Oct 18, 2012 5:06 AM CST
Going through your list Masud ..

Acacia gageana .. is not on the Discoverlife list .. but it's an accepted name.

http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?search=Acacia&guide=Neotr...

http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/ild-49993

A herbarium specimum, appears to have small spines.

http://www.iiim.res.in/herbarium/mimosaceae/images/acacia_ga...

Pods shorter and broad ..

http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/getImage.do?imageBarcode=K000791...

It does have 'prickles' ..

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=2...

Acacia angustissima var. filicioides ... could be!

http://swbiodiversity.org/seinet/collections/individual/inde...

But, it's a synonymn of Acaciella angustissima var. filicioides which is itself unresolved ..

http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/tro-50278680

Although, Acacia angustissima looks different .. or maybe not?

http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?search=Acacia+angustissim...

Acacia decurrens has more compact flower heads with more florets ..

http://home.vicnet.net.au/~carlyn/acacia_decurrens.htm

Acacia catechu flower form is totally wrong ..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acacia_catechu

http://www.motherherbs.com/acacia-catechu.html

I'll look at the others in the list later.

[Last edited by JRsbugs - Oct 18, 2012 5:09 AM (+)]
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Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
Image
JRsbugs
Oct 18, 2012 5:11 AM CST
More photos of Acacia angustissima .. it's thornless!

http://www.tropicalforages.info/key/Forages/Media/Html/Acaci...
[Last edited by JRsbugs - Oct 18, 2012 5:12 AM (+)]
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Name: Arif Masud
Alpha Centauri (Zone 9a)
Native Plants and Wildflowers I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar Container Gardener Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Enjoys or suffers hot summers Multi-Region Gardener
KAMasud
Oct 19, 2012 12:23 AM CST
Smiling . ID'ing them is a adventure all of its own. Would it help if i point out that the wall is eight foot high and this Acacia is only three years old? Seems as if it is on growth hormones.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impatiens_balfourii
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fleur_soubois.JPG
Impatiens balfourii. Is there agreement on the this ID? or
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impatiens_pallida
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/alan_cressler/tags/excellen...
Impatiens pallida? I go with the last.
Regards,
Masud.
Name: Arif Masud
Alpha Centauri (Zone 9a)
Native Plants and Wildflowers I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar Container Gardener Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Enjoys or suffers hot summers Multi-Region Gardener
KAMasud
Oct 19, 2012 12:32 AM CST
Plus the Acacia seeds are paper light and can fly. Under ideal conditions it can be invasive plus its a moisture lover.
Regards,
Masud.
Name: Arif Masud
Alpha Centauri (Zone 9a)
Native Plants and Wildflowers I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar Container Gardener Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Enjoys or suffers hot summers Multi-Region Gardener
KAMasud
Oct 19, 2012 12:58 AM CST
Thumb of 2012-10-19/KAMasud/9d6efc
Thumb of 2012-10-19/KAMasud/1ee345
Thumb of 2012-10-19/KAMasud/3a8ec5
Thumb of 2012-10-19/KAMasud/a9d1d7
Regards,
Masud.
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
Image
JRsbugs
Oct 19, 2012 4:09 AM CST
The seed pods on your plant are very long and narrow with many seeds, very unlike those of Acacia angustissima so I would discount that. The long narrow seed pods may help to identify it, I went through the list you gave on tropicos but couldn't find a match which is thornless.

There are several yellow Impatiens, a closer shot of the flowers may help, also climatic conditions and location it's growing in as many Impatiens prefer cool, damp and shady locations.
Name: Arif Masud
Alpha Centauri (Zone 9a)
Native Plants and Wildflowers I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar Container Gardener Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Enjoys or suffers hot summers Multi-Region Gardener
KAMasud
Oct 22, 2012 3:22 AM CST
Acacia, I have the flu so i am not being able to concentrate. Its the seed pods only, which in the end cause all the confusion. I wish there was some kind of software, enter the parameters of the plant and at least it would narrow down the list for humans to be able to take the ID to its logical end. Just now i have a list of 260 Chinese Acacias but like i said flu and fever. The Acacia is growing at an altitude of 4500 feet at the foothills of the Himalayas.. Summer max temp 45c and winter min temp -5c. This particular Acacia has its feet in moisture and i don't think it would take prolonged period of dryness( my guess). I have seen seed pods like this on Acacia bush type varieties. We have those also growing along rivers and streams. My route has not taken me in that direction as yet or i would have posted a pic of that Acacia also. Now, can a bush Acacia change shape into a tree?
Sorry Janet, i think i will have to go through the Chinese list. For you i have put down the URL.
http://www.acacia-world.net/html/china.html

Impatiens. They are growing beyond 6000 feet. Shaded and moist soil. Summer temp max 32c/ night time 16c. Winter temp min -10/night time but chill factor can go way down when the breeze from the icy slopes flows downwards after sunset, true for summer and winter.

As to the China element, the Himalayas are a natural boundary between China and the South. The Chinese are more active in the botanical field hence China.
Regards,
Masud.
Name: Arif Masud
Alpha Centauri (Zone 9a)
Native Plants and Wildflowers I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar Container Gardener Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Enjoys or suffers hot summers Multi-Region Gardener
KAMasud
Oct 24, 2012 12:19 AM CST
Went roaming into the Kalla Chitta mountain range. Arid and cold, the mountains are not like the Himalayas composed of soil and sedimentary rocks but metamorphic rock formation. To give an idea of terrain:-
Thumb of 2012-10-24/KAMasud/80810c
Thumb of 2012-10-24/KAMasud/7afa81

Now what i found and would like to be ID'd:-
1)
Thumb of 2012-10-24/KAMasud/d36275
Thumb of 2012-10-24/KAMasud/20e918
It was a windy day and there is some movement problem in the pics.
2)


3)



Thumb of 2012-10-24/KAMasud/3c986e
Thumb of 2012-10-24/KAMasud/9b04f2
Thumb of 2012-10-24/KAMasud/9773d4
4)
Thumb of 2012-10-24/KAMasud/604afb
Thumb of 2012-10-24/KAMasud/dc4219
5)
Thumb of 2012-10-24/KAMasud/f12717
6)
Special for Janet. Note how the flower compels a person towards it. Whistling
Thumb of 2012-10-24/KAMasud/a481ce
Thumb of 2012-10-24/KAMasud/460604
7)
This is also for Janet. A brain teaser.
Thumb of 2012-10-24/KAMasud/26aebf
The trees in the background (dark green) are Pinus roxburghii but what is the subspecies with a light green colour?
I will give you a few more shots to help. Note how the new needles of the two grow plus the size of the cones.
Thumb of 2012-10-24/KAMasud/e5929f
Thumb of 2012-10-24/KAMasud/9383d6
Thumb of 2012-10-24/KAMasud/130c32
Thumb of 2012-10-24/KAMasud/237f91
The right trunk is of roxburghii, left NOID.
Thumb of 2012-10-24/KAMasud/f8f0e0
8)


9)
Thumb of 2012-10-24/KAMasud/50a819
10)
Thumb of 2012-10-24/KAMasud/593228
11)
Thumb of 2012-10-24/KAMasud/5118f8
12)
Thumb of 2012-10-24/KAMasud/919ec4
13)
Thumb of 2012-10-24/KAMasud/c7579f
14)
Thumb of 2012-10-24/KAMasud/ac46f2
15)

and finally this is a Encephalartos but which one?
Thumb of 2012-10-24/KAMasud/fb4eee
Regards,
Masud.
Name: Arif Masud
Alpha Centauri (Zone 9a)
Native Plants and Wildflowers I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar Container Gardener Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Enjoys or suffers hot summers Multi-Region Gardener
KAMasud
Oct 24, 2012 4:26 AM CST
With reference to NOID Acacia whose seed pod is causing all the problem. As to the thorns, maybe it is still juvenile or i should check again.

http://www.google.com.pk/imgres?q=acacia+catechu&hl=en&sa=X&...
Janet please look at the seed pod on the above link.
Then the flower on this link.
http://www.google.com.pk/imgres?q=acacia+catechu&start=147&h...
Regards,
Masud.
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
Image
JRsbugs
Oct 24, 2012 5:45 AM CST
Wow Masud, such a lot to ID! Hilarious! I have some ideas on a few of them, it will take some time to research though.

Regarding your links for the Acacia, that one does have thorns and I think you need very reliable sources for photos as so many are wrongly named. A google image search shows the flowers are very different to the one you found.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acacia_catechu

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Acacia+catechu&um=1&ie=UTF-...

Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
Image
JRsbugs
Oct 24, 2012 1:08 PM CST
#2 Salvia

All in #3 Mirabilis jalapa

http://www.pakbs.org/pjbot/PDFs/43(2)/PJB43(2)0781.pdf

#5 I can't see enough detail

Ethnomedicinal Studies of Kala Chitta Hills of District Attock, Pakistan ..

http://scialert.net/fulltext/?doi=ajps.2004.335.339&org=11

I've found several references to medicinal plants in the region which are of no help.

The Pine appears to be Pinus roxburghii?

http://www.conifers.org/pi/Pinus_roxburghii.php

http://www.tropicos.org/Name/42000417?projectid=32

http://www.tropicos.org/Name/40009142?projectid=32

http://www.tropicos.org/Name/24900668?projectid=32









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