Welcome Stacia, you will find all sorts of good advice and/or sympathy here - just ask away.

Am exploring and found this forum with Puget Sounders! Yeh!

I live in the Olympia area and have seen major changes in my yard over the last 30 years. Have gone from sun to shade because of neighbors (long gone) who planted firs on the south property line. Am working on developing a woodland garden and am now using the trees to an advantage. I do love moss.

Have converted almost the entire yard to beds or pavers/paths initially because of our first generation of dobies and currently because of shade. Hubby loves not having much grass to mow. Look forward to learning and sharing.

Stacia and Jewell!! I'm up in Seattle and live in an apartment building, slowly I'm taking over as caretaker of the "grounds" as I like to think of it - since its in a totally urban environment, busy foot and car traffic...the back area is a shady "secret garden" type thing, ferns and whatnot! And the other day I noticed there are blooms on my trillium that a friend gave me in Dec. You can't see them but there are about 4 buds not just this 2!!

Stacia, I recommend figuring out where you don't want the dog(s) and blocking that off so they get into the habit of not going in your garden area! Also compost!!! Get someone to help you get a truckload...I started by getting a couple bags here and there, and it was never enough, and expensive! A truckload can be overwhelming but its worth it, and it can sit somewhere for a while until you're ready to use it! OK, that's my 2 cents!
Jewell, love to see photos! Oh yeah. and personally I love seeing photos of the pets too!! Cheers

Fellow PNW gardeners. Just love to see more people join in. Anyone else out there. Come on and introduce your self. Stacia sounds like you have lots to do and Jewell your garden sounds wonderful. Photos of both yards please and I too love the pets!!

Hi Staci and Jewell. So glad you found your way to ATP.
Can't wait to see photos of your before and some day after photos Staci. It is so much fun to make the journey together.

I love Greg's idea about large amounts of compost.

Jewell, sounds like your gardens have gone through some very big changes. I would love to see photos.

Hi Staci and Jewell.

Happy that you're here at ATP!

You'll love it here!

Staci and Jewell

Hi Staci and Jewell! Thanks for joining in the chat!

First, I agree that for almost any kind of unimproved soil, "compost cures all ills". You can buy it my the bag, or make it in a pile from kitchen scraps and leaves, shredded paper or grass clippings. Coffee grounds are great. Unimproved soil is probably hungry for almost anything organic.

One thing that I haven't done as much of as I should is "cover crops". Clover, fall rye, or mixes of cover crop seeds will help suppress weeds, improve the soil, and add organic matter to it. You could sow those cover crops on spots where nothing else is growing. They are some of the easiest things to grow and will show you where your best spots are.

Then you can add the tops to a compost heap or use them as green mulch (sheet composting). The soil that their roots have penetrated and improved can then be shoveled up and moved to your flower beds, making THAT soil deeper and richer.

>> mostly shaded backyard

Sympathy! Keep your eyes open for patches of sun, and watch where they appear at different times of day. Maybe even trim a few low-hanging limbs if there is a partly sunny spot that you could make sunnier.

When you know what you most want to grow (cool season crops or summer crops) you can decide whether you care more about sun-in-spring, summer sun, or sun-in-fall. There might even be cases where afternoon sun is more desirable than morning sun (or vice-versa). .

Me, I just put my beds wherever I have ANY sun. Then I discovered things like "cold frames don't do well if no sun hits them until late afternoon!" But when I find something that DOES thrive in a certain spot, I plant it there again.

My suggestion would be to start with easy things, and see what doles best, where. Then stretch your wings.

Are you thinking mostly flowers, mostly crops, or a mix? I'm new enough to gardening that I still get a thrill any time "they didn't all die on me!"

>> sloped

If your soil is heavy clay like mine, "sloped" is an advantage. It means you have drainage. You might want to make your beds level so that rain and watering sink in instead of running downhill and taking your topsoil with it. One way is to keep the beds narrow and run horizontally "along" the contour instead of "up-and-down".

Also, if your soil is clay or drains very poorly, when making a bed or a raised bed, you might want to start "at the bottom" and level off the "floor" before you improve the soil above the "floor".

1. IF the original slope of your ground is steep, set up some kind of wall along the DOWNhill edge of the bed. Stones, cinder blocks, a railroad tie, wooden boards, or concrete pavers stood on end. If your slope is not very steep, you only need "walls" if you build raised beds. But a "steep" yard might want beds that look more like terraces, or terraces with walkways between them.

2. Now break up the soil along the UPhill edge, and pull or shovel it over to the downhill edge, until the floor of the bed is mostly level. Ideally, it should slope downhill just enough that excess water will DRAIN downhill instead of pooling in your bed and drown your roots.

Wow, thanks everyone for the welcome and the suggestions!

Greg thanks for the tip about blocking off some "No Dogs Allowed" space - I'll take that up right away! And about composting, should I wait until I've dug up and made a bed, then compost right before planting? Should I mix it in with the soil or just layer it on top? Composting is very mysterious to me.

Rick, my yard isn't very steep, just enough to probably need some kind of terracing. Also, I don't think it's a clay soil, but it IS VERY ROCKY which seems to make everything doubly difficult. I'm planning on doing a mix of flowers and veggies - I was listening to the ATP podcast today and they were reminding me that it is good to have both!

I'll try to get pics up soon.

Stacia, I typically weed first, then topdress with about 3" of compost, with only a thin layer over the emerging plants so you don't burn or smother them. It looks a bit lumpy at first, but as the plants grow in, all you will see is healthy foliage/blooms and black dirt. Beautiful look.

Staci! Hooray! Ok, personally I would figure out where you want a bed (like Rick said sun exposure is important - this is especially true for veggies, most will not do well without full sun, in my opinion) Since you have rock, why bother digging? Figure out the bed, and go up from there, using compost and something to keep it from falling out - rock, wood, brick, whatever, as a border. That to me is the easiest way to start a garden, if you can afford that much compost and soil!

Deb, that's for more established beds, yes?? How did you start your beds?

I started a new bed with the 'Lasagna Method'. Weed eated or mow the weeds, lay a very thick layer of newspaper (be sure to overlap well), then put down about 4 to 5 inches of compost. I let that site for about a month. Punched holes to the soil beneath and planted. Everything grew beautifully.
Did the same using Greg's suggestion. Cinder block or board for walls, thick layering of newspaper, fill bed with compost and bags of aged steer manure mixed in. The vegetables grew like crazy. No digging.

I've always just sucked it up and dug out turf down to dirt when starting a new bed, then plant as heavily as possible (hence my too-close spacing problem) and composted between. For larger areas, we rototilled first, then chunked out the sod/weeds, still getting everything down to bare dirt. I am fortunate to have two sons and from the time they were quite small, it became a tradition for them to give me a day of labor for Mother's Day - typically involving shovels, although sometimes hammer/nails. Both sons and husband keep telling me 'no new beds' so my latest strategy is to just increase or re-shape existing beds as I edge them. Sneaky...

I've experimented over the years with edgings - raised beds, stones, brick, plastic, you name it. I've settled on just a clean sharp edge cut in with a straight edge spade for the most part.

I also use your method of the straight edge shovel for maintaining edged on the existing beds. I like the look. But then I also have 2 beds that are edged with pieces of broken concrete. Makes it looked like they are edged with stone, and give me a good surface for the lawn mower wheels.

Lynn, I've seen that look and like it as well. I have used round river rock in a similar fashion with not such great luck. Too many round surfaces for too many weeds to pop through. It does reflect our house style though, which has river rock facing below the windows, so I've left it be in a couple places. Makes a good evening-with-glass-of-wine project -- I plop myself down and idly pick weeds through the rock as I sip my chardonnay and ruminate on the day.

That sounds so peaceful and pleasant Deb.
Hmmmm, I could do that while sipping a glass of lemonade, since I don't like the taste of wine.

Any beverage will do.

>> I don't think it's a clay soil, but it IS VERY ROCKY which seems to make everything doubly difficult.

1.
You should probably listen to the people talking about building up good soil ON TOP of your existing rocks. They're smart. I hear the "lasagna method" lets you grow plants the first year without digging at all, on TOP of bad soil.

The following are the methods that I know about. They might be used UNDER a lasagna layer, to give you more root depth, if they are practical in your yard.

The items are listed in reverse order. Work from the bottom up, and skip the steps that are too hard. If you plant annuals instead of perennials for the first few years, you can always go back and dig deeply later. For example, find someone who will do it for you, maybe with a Roto-Tiller!

4. IF you do some deep digging or pic k work to break up soil UNDER your new bed, do that first.
3. If you dig and wheelbarrow your yard's best soil over on top of the new bed, do that second.
2. If you buy topsoil, bark, compost or manure for the bed, mix them in next.
1. Last, lay down some compost or stuff-to-make-com post-with on the very top, and do the lasagna thing.

2.
If you can afford to have topsoil and compost trucked into your yard, GREAT! Mix some with your somewhat-improved soil, lay some on top, and maybe do the lasagna thing / sheet com post on top of that. Make layers with the richest layers on top.

3.
Maybe, before laying down store-bought compost or manure or bark, break up and screen some of your existing soil. Pick the bigger rocks out of it. Maybe take it from the yard's highest spot, to level it off. Better, take it from wherever the soil is best.

Wheelbarrow it over to your sunniest spot, and put down a few inches of depth on top of existing soil. This gives you more root depth. (Build the veggie bed in your sunniest spot.)

As the organic stuff on top breaks down, soluble food (dissolving compost) will leach down into this rougher soil. Worms and microbes will follow it and improve the rough soil for you. It's as if they had microscopic picks and shovels!

4.
I like to dig, but it is hard work, and if you have so many rocks that they they are wedged together, you might need to swing a pick to get them out.

When making a new bed, I keep a chair right next to the site. Dig, sit. Dig, sit. I can do some shoveling WHILE sitting.

But after several back-breaking weekends, if you pick out the biggest rocks by hand, maybe they can be used to make the walls for a raised bed. Maybe make or find a 1" or 1/2" screen and remove the smaller rocks and pebbles. Or use a steel rake to remove rocks and the bigger pebbles.

Now the payoff:

Return the soil you just made, to the hole you just excavated, and your root zone will extend that much deeper in to your soil (say 6-12"). If you amend this new soil, you have made RICH soil! It takes Nature centuries to do that.

Now if you raise a raised bed above that (say another 6-12"), you'll have a nice deep root zone that reaches down below grade. Roots can find ground water even if the soil in your raised bed dries out quickly.