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Mar 26, 2013 1:21 PM CST
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
Frugal Gardener Garden Procrastinator I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest
Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database.
>> And about composting, should I wait until I've dug up and made a bed, then compost right before planting? Should I mix it in with the soil or just layer it on top? Composting is very mysterious to me.

The sooner you start composting, the better. Mainly, start collecting stuff to compost. Since you're starting with unimproved soil, it would benefit from having compost mixed in with it (if you can get a shovel or fork or pick between the rocks!)

Since it takes a while for the raw organic stuff to break down into "finished" compost, and you want to garden in the soil THIS summer, you probably don't have time to compost for several months in a pile, THEN mix it with the soil.

So this year, probably sheet composting or a variation like "lasagna gardening" will be more practical. I hope someone will go into more detail, but my understanding is that it's like building a shallow compost heap ON TOP OF bad soil, then growing plants right IN the layer of composting stuff.



I think the only mystery to com posting is "why does everyone have a different method?" The answer is "because EVERY method works well". It's like the movie mantra "if you build it, he will come".

If you pile it, it will compost.

Even the pile is unnecessary - it just makes the breakdown happen faster and hotter. You CAN compost things by making a pile, but during the several months or year it takes junk to break down into black humus, some nutrients and organic matter do leach away. (I do it this way - I like the way finished compost (humus) looks and feels when I add it to an existing bed.)

Or you can just spread raw organic stuff in a sheet on top of the soil ("sheet composting" things like leaves and grass clippings). Even bark and wood will EVENTUALLY compost this way.

Lasagna gardening (please help me here!) is like sheet composting but with a thicker layer of stuff (and maybe it matters more what kind of stuff). You sow seeds or transplant plants INTO the layer of composting stuff, not in the soil under it (I think).

Or you can feed an existing bed by digging holes between plants and burying smelly or unattractive raw stuff, such as kitchen scraps and garbage. ("spot composting"). This way, nothing is wasted. Microbes and worms break down the stuff right next to plant roots and the roots get maximum benefit. (But it feels "ookie" to me, to think of garbage right among my plants' roots.)

Again: start collecting stuff ASAP: leaves, grass clippings, yard trimmings, coffee grounds, kitchen scraps, hay, straw, manure, shredded paper ... almost anything organic . The traditional wisdom is to avoid meat, fat, grease and dairy. I think that is because they attract rodents and dogs. Some people have said "go easy on citrus peels". I don't know about that.

The idea is that soil life like worms and microbes need organic stuff to live. The carbon compounds and N, P and K are their food, and they release more of them than they digest. In the process, they exude other things (humic acids) that help dissolve even more N, P and K out of fine rock grains. Earthworms stir the soil, drive tunnels through it that improve drainage and aeration, and release slime that helps soil grains stick together into "crumbs" or peds that also improve soil structure. Soil fungi also improve soil structure. There are specialized root fungi (mycorrhizae) that form a symbiotic relationship with, and penetrate INTO root hairs. They help extract water and minerals form the soil, and the roots feed them in return.

All these forms of soil life are needed for healthy soil and healthy plants. All you have to do is provide them with food (compost or compost makings), water and air.

"If you build it (healthy soil), they will come."
If you feed the soil life, they will feed your plants.

Soil life can only get their air THROUGH the soil, so it has to be somewhat light and fluffy so excess water can drain OUT, letting the air back IN. Soil needs air spaces, voids, channels, or "crumb structure" A 1905 farming book taught me to call this "ventilated soil".
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Mar 27, 2013 1:22 AM CST
Name: Marilyn
Kentucky (Zone 6a)
Laughter is the Best Medicine!
Region: United States of America Rabbit Keeper Hummingbirder Salvias Charter ATP Member Birds
Echinacea Butterflies Tender Perennials Bee Lover Container Gardener Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
" Both sons and husband keep telling me 'no new beds' so my latest strategy is to just increase or re-shape existing beds as I edge them. Sneaky..."

Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Thumbs up

That's what I've been doing; increasing the existing beds. nodding
Welcome to the Agastache and Salvias Forum!

Hummingbirds are beautiful flying jewels in the garden!


Last edited by Marilyn Mar 28, 2013 9:57 PM Icon for preview
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Mar 27, 2013 6:49 AM CST
Name: Stephanie
Salem, OR (Zone 8b)
Region: Pacific Northwest Garden Ideas: Level 1
Welcome! Stacia and Jewell!
www.poppiesandthistle.com
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Mar 27, 2013 7:33 AM CST
Name: Duane
Redmond OR (Zone 5a)
Life began in a garden.
I helped beta test the first seed swap Winter Sowing Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Salvias Hummingbirder
Hostas Cottage Gardener Annuals Echinacea Container Gardener Dahlias
Marilyn, just tell your fam there is less lawn to mow. Big Grin Angel
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Mar 27, 2013 12:03 PM CST
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
Frugal Gardener Garden Procrastinator I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest
Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database.
>> just increase or re-shape existing beds as I edge them. Sneaky..."

The boundary between my yard and an adjacent yard has always been unknown (even to the park management that rents the lots). The prior renter and I just agreed on where it was.

As soon as she moved out, I chopped down weeds that had been thriving on her side and encroaching on my bed, then moved the RB wall on her side about 18" in her direction , and leveled out the soil. With these paving stones, changing the size & shape of a bed is "drag and drop" easy.

Perhaps fortunately, the next renter does NO gardening.

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Mar 27, 2013 7:39 PM CST
Name: Greg Colucci
Seattle WA (Zone 8b)
Sempervivums Sedums Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Cactus and Succulents Container Gardener Garden Ideas: Level 1
Garden Art Birds Dog Lover Cat Lover Region: Pacific Northwest Hummingbirder
Very nice Rick! Hurray!
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Mar 28, 2013 1:09 PM CST
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
Frugal Gardener Garden Procrastinator I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest
Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database.
Thank you!

The replacement renter on the OTHER side decided she liked clay mud and weeds better than she liked the narrow raised bed and hand-made soil the prior renter had let me create on her side of the sidewalk.

So I moved the walls, soil and plan ts back to my own yard. Oh, well. Now she has her hard clay and struggling dandelions back.

P.S. She also chopped out and threw away the big azalea you can see, just before its buds were about to open. She also cut down bushes and two trees - almost everything alive except the patches of grass.

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Mar 28, 2013 3:27 PM CST
Name: Deb
Planet Earth (Zone 8b)
Region: Pacific Northwest Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level
So odd what some folks will do, isn't it? We have new neighbors who have told me they plan to cut down and burn all their mature rhodies. I've offered a home to them, but we'll see what happens. Perhaps if they procrastinate until bloom time, they may reconsider. Or not.
I want to live in a world where the chicken can cross the road without its motives being questioned.
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Mar 28, 2013 4:53 PM CST
Name: Tracy
Azalea Oregon (Zone 8a)
Dog Lover Farmer Region: Oregon Organic Gardener Vegetable Grower
And to think... There's me....... Who.... When looking at the home we bought, negotiated for the tree peony and had to give her granddaughter 5 yrs to come and get it if she wanted ( IN the contract ) I am happy to say, GD never came and I still have it Thumbs up ( and the daylillies that the previous owner brought from her Grandmother's house in the Midwest, did I mention that she turned 96 the weekend before we took possession? ) The things we 'had' to remove were fruit trees, some were so far gone after 20+ yrs of neglect, we couldn't 'save' them ( BUT! ) Did 'save' the big sweet cherry ( looks like a bing) and the Gravenstien, along with 4 peach, 1 pear and 4 more apples of some kind ............. Big Grin
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.
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Mar 28, 2013 5:43 PM CST
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
Frugal Gardener Garden Procrastinator I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest
Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database.
>> they plan to cut down and burn all their mature rhodies.

ARRGH! Mine need pruning, but burning a Rhodie!!

All I can say is, the punishment should fit the crime. Remove one quarter of their limbs each year, until they sprout new ones ...

pink+white+red Rhodie
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red Rhodie + white Azalea
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old, sparse purple "tree" Rhodie near purple Azalea - needs pruning??

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Mar 28, 2013 9:16 PM CST
Name: Tracy
Azalea Oregon (Zone 8a)
Dog Lover Farmer Region: Oregon Organic Gardener Vegetable Grower
Beautiful........... Surprisingly, not a Rhodie or Azalea on the property (considering, the town I live by IS Azalea Smiling )............ I have planted a couple that I got from friends, not sure what 'color' yet, not big enough to bloom yet and they couldn't remember............ I will only have them in my front yard as they are deadly for my sheep.... The adults pretty much leave them alone....... Lambs? Just like every other 'baby' in the world, everything goes in the mouth ;) ( REALLY want that 'wink'........... sigh................)
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.
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Mar 28, 2013 10:00 PM CST
Name: Marilyn
Kentucky (Zone 6a)
Laughter is the Best Medicine!
Region: United States of America Rabbit Keeper Hummingbirder Salvias Charter ATP Member Birds
Echinacea Butterflies Tender Perennials Bee Lover Container Gardener Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
duane456 said:Marilyn, just tell your fam there is less lawn to mow. Big Grin Angel


Duane,

We've been having a guy cut and trim the grass for several years. Since he uses one of those professional wide lawn mowers, I have to make sure he has space to get between the flowerbeds. Thumbs up

He even does our gutters every Spring and Fall for leaves. Hurray!
Welcome to the Agastache and Salvias Forum!

Hummingbirds are beautiful flying jewels in the garden!


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Mar 28, 2013 10:22 PM CST
Name: Marilyn
Kentucky (Zone 6a)
Laughter is the Best Medicine!
Region: United States of America Rabbit Keeper Hummingbirder Salvias Charter ATP Member Birds
Echinacea Butterflies Tender Perennials Bee Lover Container Gardener Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Rick

Great looking flowerbeds! Everything looks nice! Thumbs up
Welcome to the Agastache and Salvias Forum!

Hummingbirds are beautiful flying jewels in the garden!


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Mar 29, 2013 12:51 PM CST
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
Frugal Gardener Garden Procrastinator I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest
Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database.
Thanks very much Marilyn!

You wouldn't believe how overgrown with weeds that back one is right now. This weekend, I'm pulling out the dripline and planning to removed and screen all the soil in the center.

I think I'll lose some plants like Columbines and, sigh, Salvias, but I HAVE to kill those weeds.

I've been told these are "Ranunculus" or "Buttercup" (#1)

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Here are some of my other "volunteer plants".

2=Cardamine/Bittercre4ss - - - - 3=unkown - - - - 4=Purslane

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Mar 29, 2013 3:33 PM CST
Name: Deb
Planet Earth (Zone 8b)
Region: Pacific Northwest Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level
Good luck with the buttercups. I've caved in and allow a certain amount of them to just live with my plants, particularly in difficult areas where little else will grow (the base of a weeping willow is one 'allowed' area). They do get jolly yellow flowers and non-gardeners think I have weedfree beds (ha).
I want to live in a world where the chicken can cross the road without its motives being questioned.
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Mar 29, 2013 7:34 PM CST
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
Frugal Gardener Garden Procrastinator I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest
Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database.
>> non-gardeners think I have weedfree beds

I know what you mean! When I'm direct-sowing something, I can usually guess which are weed seeds. The seedlings I have a LOT of, are the weeds.
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Apr 23, 2013 10:08 PM CST
Name: Paul Anguiano
Richland, WA (Zone 7a)
GW & DG: tropicalaria
Forum moderator Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages Garden Photography
Enjoys or suffers hot summers Tomato Heads Organic Gardener Greenhouse Native Plants and Wildflowers Herbs
I missed the creation of this forum, probably because I forget to go to the "forums" page and look for new ones. I gave up on the Pacific one when it was clear that no one posting on it was from a region with anything in common with mine.

Of course, I'm on the dry side of Washington state, so things are a bit different here than on the coastal side, but it's closer. nodding

I've lived in Lynnwood, Seattle, and Port Orchard, WA, before returning here to the Tri-Cities, nine years ago. And before that, I was in various parts of California...

I have a few thousand varieties in my personal plant collection, so my interests are wide and deep, and I run a seasonal plant nursery, so I raise ten thousand or so starts every year. Sometimes it's easier to list what I haven't grown. Around here I'm known as the tomato guy, the guy who grows tropicals in his geodesic dome, and the guy who goes around taking pictures of plants.

I started on GardenWeb (got the T-shirt!), moved to DG when I got tired of dealing with Spike, followed Dave to Cubits because I already had a grudge against morally bankrupt Internet Brands, and finally ended up here at ATP! I miss the big communities though. There's no online property at the moment that rivals what GardenWeb and then DG once were. No "go to" place where I can find fellow addicts fanatics enthusiasts experienced with whatever plant or growing method I happen to be dabbling with. Y'all seem like a nice lot, though, and I'm happy to be here on ATP. Maybe I should start referring all of my plant customers here. Sticking tongue out

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Mid-Columbia Gardens
Geodesic Greenhouse
Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this world, Elwood, you must be" - she always called me Elwood - "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant." Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.


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Apr 23, 2013 10:17 PM CST
Plants Admin
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Region: Ukraine Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis
Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level
Glad to see you here, Paul. We are a great bunch, Smiling and you should refer all of your customers here so that our Internet "presence" can grow.
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Apr 23, 2013 10:38 PM CST
Name: Greg Colucci
Seattle WA (Zone 8b)
Sempervivums Sedums Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Cactus and Succulents Container Gardener Garden Ideas: Level 1
Garden Art Birds Dog Lover Cat Lover Region: Pacific Northwest Hummingbirder
Welcome! Hi Paul! Welcome to the PNW forum!! I'm pretty sure there is someone else on here from near you...ya'll find one anther, or not? Shrug!
I look forward to more photos and post from you! So in the middle photo is that huckleberry? And what is the first photo?
I tried veggies, and have a little space for tomatoes, I didn't mulch as so watering was everyday!! Sad Even here in Seattle I felt like I couldn't keep up with that - especially when there is an organic farmer's market every Sunday only a few blocks away Hilarious! So I delved very heavily into hardy succulents! Sedums and sempervivums, etc. I tip my hat to you.
I have found people on here to be very friendly, which has been totally great for me! Lots of plant addicts! nodding
Cheers
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Apr 23, 2013 11:26 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Julia
Washington State (Zone 7a)
Hydrangeas Photo Contest Winner 2018 Garden Photography Region: Pacific Northwest Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Forum moderator
Plant Database Moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Sempervivums Container Gardener Foliage Fan
Welcome! Glad you found us. Is that first picture salvia 'Hot Lips'?
Sempervivum for Sale

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