Roses forum: Antiques waiting for ID's

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I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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CLUSIANA
Sep 26, 2010 12:31 PM CST
Hi Everyone,
First post on this forum. Got some roses in my garden which are quite old and for which I have no idea of the ID. Your help would be greatlly appreciated
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C.
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Charter ATP Member Irises Salvias Xeriscape Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Procrastinator The WITWIT Badge Region: Colorado Enjoys or suffers cold winters Cat Lover
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Skiekitty
Sep 26, 2010 1:47 PM CST
scent? Thorns? How tall?
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/TweetsnTreats

I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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CLUSIANA
Sep 26, 2010 1:52 PM CST
Will have a better look at it tomorrow and will revert. English is not my mothertongue so do not be astonished if I sometimes sound weird.
Thank you for answering
C.
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Charter ATP Member Irises Salvias Xeriscape Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Procrastinator The WITWIT Badge Region: Colorado Enjoys or suffers cold winters Cat Lover
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Skiekitty
Sep 26, 2010 7:50 PM CST
Actually, I believe that your English is far better than most of my clients I see every day. So I promise I will not be astonished if you sound weird.. rather, I'm astonished that someone who states that English is a second language writes as well as you do as you write EXTREMELY well. Thumbs up Thumbs up Thumbs up
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/TweetsnTreats

I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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CLUSIANA
Sep 27, 2010 6:31 AM CST
Thank you Toni.
I have been looking at the rose. Quite astonishing. This rose is wearing thorns only on the older and lower parts. Ohterwise it does not have thorns at all excepting under the leaf, just like rosa canina. I did some pictures for you. Climbing and not reblooming. No buds at all now. I should say light scent but scent. Only three lobes on the leaf next to the rose;
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I should find some pictures of the whole one if you so wish.
Thank you for your help.
C.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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zuzu
Sep 27, 2010 3:54 PM CST

Moderator

Is it a once-bloomer or does it rebloom all season?

I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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CLUSIANA
Sep 28, 2010 1:12 AM CST
Hi Zuzu
Once-bloomer as far as I know. Bad year for roses too here.
C.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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zuzu
Sep 28, 2010 1:54 AM CST

Moderator

It's a beautiful rose, isn't it? How large are the blooms?

I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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CLUSIANA
Sep 28, 2010 5:21 AM CST
Yes it is a nice one like some british ones. Not great as cut flowers. Size : may be a little smaller than Abraham Darby for instance but no the same shape. I've been thinking that it was may be this one, which is noted as a rebloomer
http://www.roseraie-fabien-ducher.com/fr/rosiers/Etoile-de-H...
Thank you for answering and pls let us have an article about the criteria enabling us to identify roses.
Thanks
C.
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Farmer Roses Raises cows Garden Ideas: Level 2
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Sep 28, 2010 8:49 AM CST
I think it does look similar. Does the shape of the bush and the fragrance match?
Porkpal
Name: Suzanne
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
Sunset Zone 15
Region: California Plant Database Moderator Roses Irises Clematis Garden Photography
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Calif_Sue
Sep 28, 2010 10:07 AM CST

Moderator

Yes, Etoile de Hollande is a rebloomer so that does leave it out. http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.2660&tab=1

This one may be hard to ID as it may not be one commonly grown here in the States. Identifying roses can be difficult from just photos unless there is something very distinctive about it because soil, cultivation, weather, etc. all can play a role in making one rose look different from the same rose growing in another garden. Often rosarians have had to resort to genetic testing just to properly ID a rose.
Maybe Melva would have some idea as she only grows OGR, of course, this may be a newer rose.
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I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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CLUSIANA
Sep 28, 2010 12:58 PM CST
Thank you to each of you. Sure that we will be able to give it a name at the end.
C.
Name: Steve
Prescott, AZ (Zone 7b)
Region: Southwest Gardening Roses
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Steve812
Oct 7, 2010 3:38 PM CST
It seems like a tough assignment to me.

I notice that there is a bit of a spiral arrangement to the petals, and some reflexing at the tips. This is suggestive of a hybrid tea rose. The color suggests an older HT, since pure red is more in style since mid-century. I also think it is growing outside the US, just from context. I also notice that it has hips, and I believe this is not so common in HTs.

My first guess would be Karl Herbst. http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&q=photo+of+rose+Karl+Herb...

Actually, I don't have any more guesses right now unless it is very fragrant.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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zuzu
Oct 7, 2010 4:04 PM CST

Moderator

But Karl Herbst and other hybrid teas are reliable rebloomers, and Clusiana's rose is a once-bloomer.
Name: Steve
Prescott, AZ (Zone 7b)
Region: Southwest Gardening Roses
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Steve812
Oct 7, 2010 4:13 PM CST
Is there anyone who would argue that your photo of Lady Banks blooming in the fall proves that the rose is not, in fact, Lady Banks because Lady Banks blooms but once a year in the spring?

Is there a rose that predates 1820 that has a form such as the rose pictured above? Does anyone really believe that it is a gallica, an alba, a centifolia, or a damask rose?

I have grown a lot of "repeat" blooming roses that have not bloomed once in a year, let alone twice. And if you live in a place that is not that great for growing roses in the first place, and have a bad rose-growing season you might find the same thing, especially if the rose has not had a lot of TLC. My guess is that this one has been a bit neglected.

Sadly, we do not all live in California where the sun shines every day, the rains come reliably, the soil is fertile, the air is warm, the people are beautiful, and everything else is absolutely perfect. Sometimes roses elsewhere behave less favorably.

Name: Steve
Prescott, AZ (Zone 7b)
Region: Southwest Gardening Roses
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Steve812
Oct 7, 2010 4:37 PM CST
I apologize for the tone.

I don't mean to be defending my guess, as I think there is little chance it is actually correct. There must be several thousand roses that are reddish in color.



Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Farmer Roses Raises cows Garden Ideas: Level 2
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Oct 7, 2010 9:27 PM CST
What tone? I thought your argument was interesting.
Porkpal
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Charter ATP Member Irises Salvias Xeriscape Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Procrastinator The WITWIT Badge Region: Colorado Enjoys or suffers cold winters Cat Lover
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Skiekitty
Oct 8, 2010 9:06 AM CST
Hey Steve! Are you saying that people in Colorado are ugly? Huh? Is that what you're saying?

(you know what, you'd be right. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing One of my favorite things to do is to go to the Mile High Marketplace, which used to be the flea market, but they're trying to upscale it 'cuz flea markets are just SOOOOO icky Whistling [I love flea markets!!]. Anyways, I love to people watch while there, especially if I was set up to get rid of some junk. And you know what? There's some UGLY people in this world!)

We still love ya. *HUG* At least y'all were able to figure out some possibles. I was at a complete blank. That's why I love this place here, no one is super high-and-mighty-I'm-soooooo-much-smarter-than-everyone-else . I know that I'm one of the beginners here and my suggestions are usually so wide off the mark, you'd wonder if I'd ever even seen a rose, let alone grown any. But you know what? How else do we learn? And, honestly, from what I've seen, California may have the perfect soil, perfect rain, perfect sun, and the perfect people, but they also have the perfect taxes and the right to tell people what kind of pets they can have and what kinds of pets they can't have. Plus, why is it that you see something and it has a tag or a warning that states "The State of California has determined that this item can cause cancer." What, it doesn't cause cancer in, say, Nebraska? LOL!

I guess what I'm trying to say is that we all get frustrated. No problems. This is a pretty tall order to try & find that needle in the haystack. Plus, considering that I'm finding out the hard way that roses can have more than 1 name, or 3 "different" roses all look identical (especially to a novice like me). We (I'm using a judicial "we" here, but my contributions are more of a comedic sidekick rather than a actual contributor) may stumble upon the right rose. We may not. All we can do is try. Especially considering I was thinking that it was a Pink Climbing Blaze, but Blaze doesn't come in pink, I don't think. :)

*big hug!*
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/TweetsnTreats

I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Image
CLUSIANA
Oct 8, 2010 11:34 AM CST
Thank you to everyone and to Steve in particular. I like his analysis. Is true that this rose has been neglected and with all the roses I can tell that I did not see any bloom during that fall but cannot tell for sure it is not a rebloomer and the weather was not good at all for roses this year.
However I really do appreciate everyone efforts to help for the ID.
I will revert but now I am travelling and working with no much time to spend with you all.
The best for each of u in the meantime.
C.
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Farmer Roses Raises cows Garden Ideas: Level 2
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Oct 8, 2010 1:00 PM CST
Let us know if it reblooms in the future and we can try again.
Porkpal

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