Hi 2Kids1Bike,

" Would them being open-pollinated mean they "start" at F2 hybrids? "

No, open-pollinated most definitely do not "start" as F2 hybrids. F2s are the offspring of F1s. Open-pollinated varieties are the progeny of open-pollinated. A sellable commercial variety isn't sellable if it hasn't "come true" for several generations. F2s differ quite a lot from each other, and they can differ quite a lot from their F1 parent or parents. And their children, the F3s, can differ from them. Don't take my word for this stuff--check your biology textbook.

ZM

Hi ZenMan,

Thank you again for the education. I guess I do need a brush up on biology. 🥵

I now have confusion on seed starting indoors for breeding:

1. Do you personally ever use cell packs or do you use small pots when starting or growing your seedlings the first 3-5 weeks? Does using one or the other affect the overall health / growth, seed production of the plant?

2. I watched a video today where seeds were started with the paper towel method. Once germinated, they were planted in cell packs with potting mix.

I thought seedlings shouldn't have potting mix until roots were better established (3-5 weeks?)

As always, I am grateful for your help.

Hi 2Kids1Bike,

I don't use cell packs. Since I now garden "indoors" in an apartment, I have changed things a bit. I use "Perfect Pots" which are square, about 8"x8" by about 7½ inches tall. They are a semi-flexible thick black rubber-like plastic, proving to be almost indestructible. They hold about one gallon and I fill them with Pro-Mix BX. I plant zinnia seeds in the ProMix, about ¾" deep. Zinnias grow from seed to bloom to seed in the Perfect Pots with ProMix. No re-potting needed.

ZM

Are you starting to grow at your new place, ZM?
Recently, I listened to a podcast featuring Don Tipping of Siskiyou Seeds on A Way to Garden with Margaret Roach. He is breeding zinnias so I looked to see what he had. Maybe I will try Crazy Legs but his breeding program is nothing compared to what you are producing, ZM.

https://www.siskiyouseeds.com/...

https://awaytogarden.com/expan...

Hi Loretta,

I have grown a few zinnia plants indoors in "Perfect Pots". I saved some green seeds today, which I will probably plant at least a pot of this evening. This is a much scaled-back operation, purely for my entertainment. In the "good old days," I had an almost commercial-sized operation.



But, in my advancing years, I do need to scale back. And, in an apartment environment, I do feel involved with the zinnias at a closer level. Which is a new experience for me. It feels sort of good.

ZM

ZenMan said: Hi again,

It's been a while since I posted any Zinnia pictures, and apparently, I can't break the habit. Don't forget, you can see a larger version by clicking on them.





Those are a zinnia version of a white Christmas. Merry Christmas, everyone.

ZM

These are lovely!

ZenMan said: Hi 2Kids1Bike,

I don't use cell packs. Since I now garden "indoors" in an apartment, I have changed things a bit. I use "Perfect Pots" which are square, about 8"x8" by about 7½ inches tall. They are a semi-flexible thick black rubber-like plastic, proving to be almost indestructible. They hold about one gallon and I fill them with Pro-Mix BX. I plant zinnia seeds in the ProMix, about ¾" deep. Zinnias grow from seed to bloom to seed in the Perfect Pots with ProMix. No re-potting needed.

ZM

Ok, so cell packs or larger pots. We should get healthy plants either way.

2Kids1Bike,

"We should get healthy plants either way."

Hopefully,

ZM

Well, ZM, I am glad you are back at it. That is an impressive setup you had there.
Have you thought of finding a partner to grow out your progeny?

Hi Loretta,

"I am glad you are back at it. That is an impressive setup you had there."

Not at all impressive compared to what I had on the farm in the basement. I saved some hybrid seeds and planted them here in the apartment today. That was a faster turnaround than what I did on the farm.

"Have you thought of finding a partner to grow out your progeny?"

Thought of it and rejected it. This breeding zinnias thing for me was always just for fun and never for profit. It has never been more than a hobby to this day. Any commercial conversion would have had to occur many years ago. I am much too old to be thinking about a second career. In my opinion, many of my mutant zinnias are too odd to be commercially competitive. But thanks for your interest and ideas.

ZM

Even if it wasn't a business venture, it can be left for someone else to continue. You have dedicated many years for your unique results. Another hobbiest in the cut flower industry might be interested. Anyway, just a thought.

ZM ~ I agree with Loretta! Many people would love to have and grow the seeds which you have so painstakingly developed.

Hi, everyone.

I'm a zinnia fun. They are pretty with different petal colors. I'm not sure are all zinnia plants not fragrant?

Welcome zc,

Right offhand, I don't know of any zinnia varieties that I would classify as "fragrant". Maybe butterflies and bees can "smell" them. But not me.

ZM

I want to learn so I participate in as many Zinnia Breeding groups I can. I have seen some comments and questions that I wanted to ask here since there are many varied responses including some that aren't fully being answered.

****************
Question: Is growing inside creating weak seed genetics? Wouldn't true breeding take place in real world conditions? (Yes that would take a long time)

In a follow up, the question was explained a little further: If exposed to true world conditions, the weakest genes would not survive causing the stronger genes to be dominant.

Question: Can they grow and survive the elements, can they produce big flower heads, can they deal with crazy winds, and insects etc. Only then will you know what seed offspring you'd want? Yes, No?
********************

Thank you and I look forward to your responses!

Hi 2Kids1Bike,

My zinnia breeding program consisted of two generations indoors followed by two generations outdoors. I used the green seed technique to cut a month off of each of those generations, and that speed-up made the four generations per year possible. I don't know if the indoor generations created weaker offspring. The two outdoor generations were subject to all the pressures that Kansas weather, flora, and fauna could do. Birds have a taste for zinnia seeds, and they tore apart more than a few of my outdoor zinnia seed heads. We had windstorms up to 70 miles an hour, and that tended to flatten any zinnia plants that weren't supported or protected in some way. I used home-made "zinnia cages" (similar to tomato cages) to support my outdoor plants. This was an outdoor zinnia bush protected by a Zinnia Cage.

I think we have differing Zinnia breeding philosophies. I shamelessly coddle my favorite zinnia specimens. I don't know if that is a bad thing or not. But follow your best instincts. You will enjoy the hobby better if you do that. And as far as I am concerned, having fun is what it is all about.

ZM

Thank you ZenMan!

Your "cage" is so cool!

I am not sure we differ. I am very very new at this but I "coddle" mine as well. The questions I posted are questions I've seen asked but I have seen few answers and, trying to learn more if the science, I wanted to check here.

Hi 2Kids1Bike,

We are friends, even if we don't agree on everything. In nature, there is a "survival of the fittest" thing going on, but in hobby plant breeding, for me, it is a different sort of game that doesn't involve "survival." I think that instead of "survive," the goal is to "thrive" with my help. And growing plants indoors can be a helpful factor in that.

ZM

Hi ZenMan,

**always friends**

My dad had a saying that I can't quite remember all the words to but it went something like:

You will always have an opinion and can feel strong enough to respectfully disagree.

You can disagree but it doesn't always have to be a debate

You can have a healthy debate but it doesn't have to be an argument

You're in a red zone if the argument becomes conflict

You disengage if the argument steers toward a fight

Otherwise you could quickly face
a battle which will likely turn to war.

Or something like that. 🙂

So, I'm not good at conflict.

Heck, I can't even formulate an opinion on most topics here as I just don't know enough. 😇

And I certainly appreciate and respect your knowledge, experience, time and kindness.

Hi 2Kids1Bike,

Your Dad had some good philosophy.
Thanks for sharing.

ZM