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Jun 21, 2015 3:46 PM CST
Name: Jim D
East Central Indiana (Zone 5b)
Annuals Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Garden Procrastinator Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Indiana
Hummingbirder Frogs and Toads Dragonflies Cottage Gardener Butterflies Birds
Seeing a few Pearl Crescent Butterflies since the sun is shining .
This a Milkweed patch , not a garden , how not to garden , is how to grow Milkweed , the native variety
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In the Butterfly garden if a plant is not chewed up I feel like a failure
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Jun 21, 2015 4:47 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Melanie
Lutz, Florida (Zone 9b)
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Hummingbirder Birds Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Florida Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Bromeliad Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Salvias
Christine, stinkhorns are the layman's term we use for osmeterium. It's a reversible gland that all Swallowtail butterflies have and it's located right behind their head. When angry or scared, they stick it out. It's coated in a smelly substance that has the same chemical you can find in rancid butter! Some caterpillars smell worse than others; my vote goes to the Spicebush ST for smelliest stinkhorns. They are also supposed to resemble the forked tongue of a snake. Most Swallowtails have yellow or orange stinkhorns, but Giant Swallowtails have red ones. Here's one of my favorite pictures ever showing a Giant ST sticking out his osmeterium, or stinkhorns.

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Jim, I think your milkweed patch is better than plenty of gardens I've seen. I was visiting Grandma once in WV and we went over to Oil Springs, KY to visit the old family cemeteries. One is on top of a small, but very steep hill. The lady in the house at the bottom where we park had a beautiful little garden with lots of coneflowers and other natives. I pulled out my camera because I had never seen so many Silver-Spotted Skippers in one place! There were other butterflies, too, like Fritillaries. She apologized that her garden wasn't as nice as it used to be and how she was growing mostly natives because of her health. Well, needless to say I went off about how great it was and look how much the butterflies like it, etc. We visited last year and she still remembered me as the "butterfly lady". Hilarious! Here's a few of the pictures.

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Jun 21, 2015 4:50 PM CST
Name: greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
I have no use for internet bullies!
Avid Green Pages Reviewer Keeper of Poultry Vegetable Grower Rabbit Keeper Frugal Gardener Garden Ideas: Master Level
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@jimard8,
Thank You! For the photos. Your 'not a garden' looks like the back part of my yard. I let that area grow wild for all the creatures and critters.
Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~"Leaf of Faith"
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Jun 21, 2015 4:59 PM CST
Name: Christine
North East Texas (Zone 7b)
Shine Your Light!
Heirlooms Native Plants and Wildflowers Organic Gardener Hummingbirder Bee Lover Herbs
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Melanie, that's so interesting. Nice pictures too.

Oh my, I guess I never made any of the Giant ST caterpillars mad enough to show me their horns. But I may have to try to see some for myself sometime. Whistling Hilarious!
May your life be like a wildflower, growing freely in the beauty and joy of each day --Native American Proverb

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Jun 21, 2015 5:10 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Melanie
Lutz, Florida (Zone 9b)
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Hummingbirder Birds Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Florida Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Bromeliad Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Salvias
I call Black Swallowtails the "mean caterpillars" because they're always the quickest to use their stinkhorns. Probably because they get eaten more by predators than caterpillars who eat stuff that makes them taste nasty. For example, Polydamas Swallowtails are super chill and hardly ever stinkhorn you. That's why I like to use Polydamas in my demonstrations at MOSI. But if you want one to do it, just poke them or squeeze them - but not too hard! I've also heard that in experiments, scientists would hold wasps in tweezers near the caterpillars to get them to use their osmeterium. I've read that it's mostly effective on ants and doesn't really keep the larger predators away. I think the Spicebush probably has the most effective ones in looking like a snake since they already have the big eyespots. I also have to give credit to the Pokemon animators for including the osmeterium when they drew Caterpie. They're pink, but at least they're there!

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Jun 22, 2015 8:10 PM CST
Name: Jim D
East Central Indiana (Zone 5b)
Annuals Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Garden Procrastinator Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Indiana
Hummingbirder Frogs and Toads Dragonflies Cottage Gardener Butterflies Birds
I almost got a Mourning cloak
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Confused Confused
In the Butterfly garden if a plant is not chewed up I feel like a failure
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Jun 22, 2015 8:31 PM CST
Name: greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
I have no use for internet bullies!
Avid Green Pages Reviewer Keeper of Poultry Vegetable Grower Rabbit Keeper Frugal Gardener Garden Ideas: Master Level
Plant Identifier Region: Georgia Native Plants and Wildflowers Composter Garden Sages Bookworm
Great photo! Almost is pretty good. Thumbs up Rolling on the floor laughing

At least you had your camera with you. All I had was a garden hose and watering wand when I noticed several Black Swallowtail caterpillars munching on the Cyclospermum leptophyllum/Slender Celery. I let it grow to see if it would attracts the cats.
Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~"Leaf of Faith"
Last edited by greene Jun 22, 2015 8:36 PM Icon for preview
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Jun 23, 2015 6:28 PM CST
Name: Meredith
Atlanta (Zone 8a)
Butterflies Region: Georgia Hummingbirder Seed Starter
Hey guys - hope everyone is well. My caterpillar sitter did great -- see what I found when I got home? Spicebush cat is FINALLY in chrysalis and gulf frit eggs hatched while I was gone. Hurray!

What is up with this dreadful heat?! Saw grass skippers only.

Recommendation: Do NOT fly the red-eye from Seattle to Atlanta. You will be totally off the next day.
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I love butterfly gardening & am active in NABA. Please visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/group... & website nabageorgia.weebly.com.
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Jun 23, 2015 7:04 PM CST
Name: Jim D
East Central Indiana (Zone 5b)
Annuals Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Garden Procrastinator Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Indiana
Hummingbirder Frogs and Toads Dragonflies Cottage Gardener Butterflies Birds
Nice photo's and interest memays

Mellielong I really enjoyed your post about visiting Grandma and Kentucky , That reminds me of the also times , when dicussing about walking on garden earth and how big plants ignored often had gotten (soil compaction) or how nice they bloomed with no care ,
Similar it seems about not disturbing the critters , the Butterflies and such , Like when the Butterflies often roost under plant tables until someone walks up to the table ,
That is really good picture of the not at all, or little worked garden ,, wonderful old time picture ,
In the Butterfly garden if a plant is not chewed up I feel like a failure
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Jun 24, 2015 1:03 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Melanie
Lutz, Florida (Zone 9b)
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Hummingbirder Birds Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Florida Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Bromeliad Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Salvias
Welcome back, Meredith! Looks like a fine Spicebush chrysalis, there. I wonder which of ours will come out first? Hooray for the Gulf Frits, too! What kind of passion vine do you grow, out of curiosity?

Jim, I love the Mourning Cloak. We raised them a few years ago at MOSI but that's the only time I've ever seen one. They're one of those butterflies that prefer fruit so we would set out a bowl of fruit for them to nosh on. As for Grandma, she's over in WV, but I try to visit the family cemeteries in KY when we're up there. It's only a two hour drive. Those pictures were taken when I visited in 2010. It's so rural in both states that I get to see so many butterflies. I've enjoyed visiting at different times of year so I can see different plants and butterflies. When I was a kid we always went in August, right before school started. I also like to submit all my photos to BAMONA since I doubt they're getting many reports from such rural areas.

Well, it's the middle of the night again. I did go to the movies today but then I crashed when I got home and just got up a while ago. Meredith is right - this heat has been unbearable! Maybe I should just become a nocturnal animal? Rolling on the floor laughing Monday we had quite a bit of rain and it was cloudy so it didn't get terribly hot, but I saw my car thermometer hit 100 for the first time the other day. And the humidity! My glasses fog up every time I go outside.

I've got some good and bad news because that's how nature works. I lost my last Black Swallowtail cat. Not sure why, but he was the runt and never grew as fast as the others. And then the other day he was just toes up dead. Well, prolegs, not toes. It was still sad. And then, I was heading to Starbucks the other day and saw one of my Monarch cats was dead. And being eaten by ants! I don't think the ants killed it; they were just cleaning up.

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The ants actually scattered before I took the photo because I was moving the stems looking for the other cats. I did find this guy looking okay.

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I've still got plenty of Zebra Longwings. Probably helps that I've been releasing them.

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The Duskywings are still hanging around which is nice because most of my Spanish Needles got mowed down. But they seem to like porterweed pretty well, too.

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In super cool news, my Tersa Sphinx Moth emerged while I was at the movies! Luckily, it hadn't learned to fly yet. It did release a bunch of meconium outside when I took it out. You can see it on my pinky finger in the pictures. It's fun to see one of these guys holding still and in the daylight where I could appreciate all the coloring. I held him in my room until about 6:30 pm. By then, he was raring to go. Took off super fast around my house!

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And while I was out there taking pictures, there was this Skipper.

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And this Duskywing was out there, too.

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Meanwhile, inside the house, my Io Moths are getting bigger. The biggest one even has a red stripe now!

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Jun 24, 2015 2:16 AM CST
Name: Jim D
East Central Indiana (Zone 5b)
Annuals Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Garden Procrastinator Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Indiana
Hummingbirder Frogs and Toads Dragonflies Cottage Gardener Butterflies Birds
Hey Millielong ,, I got BAMONA to accept a photo of a Erynnis Funeralis a Funeral Duskywing (not common for here) for my region list update , Also an update for Monarch watchers about my first ,
BAMONA dropped the Great spangled Fritiliary so I submitted a photo and report and had it put back on the regional list for here ,
Half a dozen others I am trying to get pics of to add to the regional list here ,, Giant Swallowtail and Northern Metalmark are not on the list here and I have seen both . hoping , hoping ,hoping ..

Sad about your Black swallowtail cat .. but not all is ever perfect ,nature decides anyway I agree the shpinx Moth is really cool .! Smiling We get the first Duskywing here , I still have trouble with the scientific names , Confused
In the Butterfly garden if a plant is not chewed up I feel like a failure
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Jun 24, 2015 4:49 AM CST
Name: Cinda
Indiana Zone 5b
Dances with Dirt
Beekeeper Bee Lover Overwinters Tender Plants Indoors Cottage Gardener Herbs Wild Plant Hunter
Hummingbirder Butterflies Birds Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Organic Gardener Vegetable Grower
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pulling weeds yesterday eve and found this guy,I carefully slipped it onto some weeds on the edge of the woods
..a balanced life is worth pursuit.
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Jun 24, 2015 6:46 AM CST
Name: Jennifer
48036 MI (Zone 6b)
Cottage Gardener Houseplants Spiders! Heucheras Frogs and Toads Dahlias
Hummingbirder Sedums Winter Sowing Peonies Region: Michigan Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Wow! Just wow! So many cool things here.

That Sphinx Moth is unbelievable! Very cool!
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Jun 24, 2015 12:33 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Melanie
Lutz, Florida (Zone 9b)
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Hummingbirder Birds Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Florida Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Bromeliad Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Salvias
Hey, Cinda found an Io Moth! That's what my scary orange guys are going to be when they grow up! No touching as caterpillars as they will sting, but totally safe in adult form. Just don't expose them to any nuclear radiation and make a new Mothra! Rolling on the floor laughing

Jennifer, glad you liked the Tersa Sphinx Moth! I like to think the military designed the stealth fighter after them, but they're not telling!
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Jun 24, 2015 2:28 PM CST
Name: Jim D
East Central Indiana (Zone 5b)
Annuals Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Garden Procrastinator Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Indiana
Hummingbirder Frogs and Toads Dragonflies Cottage Gardener Butterflies Birds
Cinda ,, is there a pair of eyes watching you , on the wing ? neat one ,the Moth Hurray! Hurray! Hurray!

A visitor this afternoon that is 2 ,this season


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Smiling Smiling Smiling
In the Butterfly garden if a plant is not chewed up I feel like a failure
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Jun 24, 2015 7:35 PM CST
Name: Cinda
Indiana Zone 5b
Dances with Dirt
Beekeeper Bee Lover Overwinters Tender Plants Indoors Cottage Gardener Herbs Wild Plant Hunter
Hummingbirder Butterflies Birds Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Organic Gardener Vegetable Grower
I saw your photo of the fuzzy caterpillars following each other Smiling
I did some reading on the host plants and we have many trees for (her?) to lay her eggs.
..a balanced life is worth pursuit.
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Jun 24, 2015 8:47 PM CST
Name: Meredith
Atlanta (Zone 8a)
Butterflies Region: Georgia Hummingbirder Seed Starter
Love all the pics - I'd love to raise some moths. Something is eating my datura - could have sworn it was frass- but I can't find who it is.

Mellie I have passiflora incarnata aka maypop. It is a real thug and growing madly. Blooms like this.
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Question for anyone on this board in Georgia - informal poll - where is the best butterfly viewing venue? Callaway garden is not an acceptable answer.
I love butterfly gardening & am active in NABA. Please visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/group... & website nabageorgia.weebly.com.
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Jun 24, 2015 9:41 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Melanie
Lutz, Florida (Zone 9b)
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Hummingbirder Birds Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Florida Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Bromeliad Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Salvias
Meredith, if something is eating your Datura, it is likely the tobacco hornworm (AKA tomato hornworm). It is also in the Sphinx Moth family, but not as well-liked as the others. They'll eat anything in the nightshade family. Dad said my Brugmansia was looking a little chewed up, but I haven't been out there to give it a good going over. Too hot.

Jim, the Io Moth does indeed have large eyespots that are used to scare predators. When they sit normally, you can't see them, but if scared, they'll "flash" the eyes at a predator. They even have white mixed in with the blue coloring so the eyes look "moist" just like real eyes. If it can put off a predator for even a fraction of a second, that's often long enough to escape and live another day.
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Jun 25, 2015 6:04 AM CST
Name: Christine
North East Texas (Zone 7b)
Shine Your Light!
Heirlooms Native Plants and Wildflowers Organic Gardener Hummingbirder Bee Lover Herbs
Butterflies Dragonflies Birds Cat Lover Dog Lover Garden Photography
Here's that Tiger moth caterpillar I've been trying to upload. Smiling
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May your life be like a wildflower, growing freely in the beauty and joy of each day --Native American Proverb

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Jun 25, 2015 9:13 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Melanie
Lutz, Florida (Zone 9b)
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Hummingbirder Birds Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Florida Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Bromeliad Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Salvias
AAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!! IT HAPPENED! IT FINALLY HAPPENED!!!!!

Sorry for shouting, folks! But I just found two Tiger Swallowtail caterpillars on my Sweetbay Magnolia!
Hurray! Hurray! Hurray! Hurray! Hurray! Hurray! Hurray! Hurray! Hurray! Hurray! Hurray!

A little about my history with Tiger Swallowtails...I found two one time in West Virginia but had a sad mishap when I left them in the car for what I thought would be "just a minute". And they overheated. Totally my fault. Then, a few years ago, despite my butterfly book saying Tiger Swallowtails only use Sweetbay Magnolia south of Ocala (about two hours north of me), one totally laid eggs on my Black Cherry! But they died soon after hatching. Thumbs down I finally found a Sweetbay Magnolia at a local nursery and planted it in late 2013 (I think?). Last year I found one caterpillar on it. He had already turned green so he was probably at least 4th instar. But he, too, died. Thumbs down Thumbs down

I thought maybe I needed more Sweetbays and since they're not a big tree, I decided to plant two in my butterfly garden. The same nursery still carried them at the same price of $60 for about a seven foot tree. But I waited until spring to purchase them because it was too late in the year last year when I had the space for them cleared. Lo and behold, when I went back in the spring, the price was down to $20! I got so excited, I bought two for me and donated two to MOSI!

But I've been looking all year and nothing on any of the three. I've seen signs of munching, but I can't be sure it was caterpillars. Recently, I had a female Tiger ST visit the yard but I still didn't see any eggs. While I was outside today taking pictures that you'll see in a minute, I thought I'd check the plants since it hadn't gotten face-melting hot yet. I was over checking the older of the three Magnolias, which oddly enough, has the newer growth and bigger leaves, and I saw something resembling bird poop. I tried not to get my hopes up, but I looked and IT WAS A CATERPILLAR!!! I took the leaf and ran over to the lanai where my family could see me through the sliding glass door and commenced doing my happy dance (it involves lots of "hands in the air" and the "Cabbage Patch"). Mom opened the door and asked what I found and I yelled, "Tiger Swallowtail" at her. I had her take him inside so I could check for more without worrying about dropping the first cat. And I found another one! I will keep searching, but for now here's my babies! They start out looking like bird poop, but we'll get to watch them molt into their green form in a while. Cross your fingers that these are the ones that make it! Finding them so young helps. Hopefully, no parasites or diseases.

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So I'm super excited today! But back to regularly scheduled programming. First, I like your Tiger Moth, Christine. It's so weird because Dad and I were talking about them this morning. He called it a Wooly Bear caterpillar and I told him it was a Tiger Moth. He was talking about getting stung by one and how it hurt. We also talked about how some people say you can predict the weather based on how much orange or brown they have on them.

Late yesterday afternoon, I had my first Black Swallowtail emerge! I kept it overnight and took it out fairly early this morning because I didn't think it could fly if it hadn't warmed up yet. And I wanted pictures! I'm pretty sure this one is a female because the males have more yellow and kind of a distinct pattern.

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Then, I was going to get in the car to go to Starbucks and there was this moth hanging out. I've seen this guy before and I think BAMONA identified it for me, but I'm going to send it in again. Many moths look alike!

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The whole reason I went outside was because I wanted to show you guys (in good lighting) what my Black ST chrysalis looked like before it emerged. Number two was about to come out and I wanted to show you. Now, you can definitely see the wing pattern through the chrysalis so that's an obvious sign it's going to emerge. But also, you see those rings around where the body is? When you see those, I'm pretty sure that means the body has gotten free of the chrysalis and is about to emerge. Because I always see that pretty soon before they come out (which could still be a few hours, FYI).

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And while I was out front, another frass pile led me to a Monarch. He was so plump and juicy I had to pet him a little!

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And there was a Gulf Frit enjoying the Mexican Flame Vine.

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And there was another cool moth on the side of the house.

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Now, while I was typing all that Tiger ST stuff, my Black ST that we saw in the chrysalis pictures decided to emerge. And I wanted everyone to see how weird butterflies look when they first emerge. They're all wrinkly and their bodies are swollen with fluid they have to push into their wings in order to expand them. This one kept running up and down my arm and man, do they tickle! But within 10-15 minutes, they look pretty normal. Their wings don't completely dry for a couple of hours, but they at least look like a butterfly. Here's some photos of mine before the wings expanded.

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All right folks, I'm so happy, I'm going to go hug my Sweetbay Magnolia tree. And I'll keep checking it. I told Dad we may have to get the ladder out so I can be 100% thorough in my investigation. He's used to me; I made him get the ladder out one time when I saw a Red-Spotted Purple in my Black Cherry that was too high up to get. I take this stuff seriously! Rolling on the floor laughing

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