I thought so!

mellielong said:It is a host to some moths, like the Pluto Sphinx Moth. And hummingbirds love it. But does it even grow that far north? Just to be clear, I am referring to the plant Firebush (Hamelia patens)

As am I. It will grow after I put it outside. Like:

Plumeria
Brugmansia
Plumbago
Oleander
Bird of Paradise
Lantana
Myrh
and about another 3 dozen plants that I winter over indoors.



My wife WILL kill me.

OBTW - I saw Monarch today! Made my day

David, you must be a glutton for punishment! You're not pushing the zone envelope - you're totally ignoring the zones!

Well, I started clearing the front today and I am super tired. Like, I was questioning whether I even like gardening. Dad is getting my Mantis Tiller repaired tomorrow so that will be a big help. I can't pull that much skunk vine! It's the absolute worst invasive plant ever. I pulled a lot of the Spanish Needles so the pollinators are going to be mad at me. There's still plenty down by the road and behind the house. A few months back, one of our users posted a picture of Violet (Viola cornuta 'Frizzle Sizzle Blue') and I made the mistake of showing it to my mother, who loves pansies. We usually plant them every winter. So we got some seeds and now it's my job to plant them. Mom does not garden. Mom kills things. Mom offered to help today and I'm thinking, "You had a knee replaced in June. No." I also pulled all the Giant Milkweed because you know I said I'm going with all native milkweeds. I bought some A. humistrata and A. verticillata recently and I know I have some A. tuberosa seeds here somewhere. After all that pulling, there are many, many displaced lizards running around.

I released more Phaon Crescents this morning and one nicely had its wings open while the other had them closed so I thought it would make a nice picture.



A lot of people ask me if my butterflies stick around once I release them. It's not like I tag them so I don't know for sure, but I'm pretty sure this female Black ST is one I released recently. I just don't see them that often or this late in the year.



I was trying to take pictures of a Long-Tailed Skipper on my porterweed but it kept zooming from flower to flower. It was on the other side of the plant so I had the zoom as high as it would go. Then, it lands right in front of me! Out of reflex, I took the shot and it turned out pretty good! I tell people, just keep clicking and you can usually get at least one good one.



Zebra Longwing on Mexican Flame Vine. Looks like it escaped being eaten a couple of times.



Mom said she saw a Monarch last week and I kind of doubted her, but I saw one today! Maybe the smell of all the milkweed I was cutting attracted it.



There were plenty of Sulphurs flying around but I never could get a picture. I did see this rather large Bagworm on my Senna, though.



This Long-Tailed Skipper was on my magical red pentas which is odd because they normally stick to the porterweed and the salvia. I tried to get a picture but it flew over to my bromeliad and basked. Also note, it only has one tail.



I keep telling Dad he needs to clean the gutters. That's Tassel Flower up there.



Back inside, I had two male Black Swallowtails emerge. They took right off and flew really high which made me happy. I had a feeling they would which was why I took pictures of them still in the container.

mellielong said: You're not pushing the zone envelope - you're totally ignoring the zones!

Mellie, as you are my new caterpillar guru, David is my new "ignoring the zones" guru!
And I'm looking forward to learning stuff from both of you!

Mellie, I just harvested some Asclepias tuberosa seeds if you can't find yours.
I can send about 1/2 a pod's worth to anyone who wants some.
Would love some native to SW PA if anyone can trade.

[quote="crittergarden"
Would love some native to SW PA if anyone can trade.[/quote]

http://monarchwatch.org/bring-...

12 types - that is a lot.

That's a great link David!

Hmm..those aren't all native milkweeds, though. I notice they have Tropical Milkweed listed for Florida and that it definitely not native. So keep that in mind while choosing! Also, many of the native milkweeds like it wet, hence the Swamp Milkweed name, so make sure you choose one that's right for your type of habitat. About half of the ones that are native to my county grow in wetlands which is a little frustrating. But then again, I'm glad my house doesn't flood! With this El Nino year, it's going to be a wet one, and the weatherman said we just had one of the wettest summers in a long time. Maybe I will be able to grow those milkweeds, after all!

Swamp MW enjoys a moist location, but also does fine in dryer areas as well if watered occassionally. I have it planted in 3 places - none of which is swampy.

Tropical MW is not native to any where in the US per se. But in many areas it has been growing for a very long time.

Here in Missouri, I am a Member of the Missouri Native Plant Society (also Master Naturalist and member of Missouri Prairie Foundation) and well over half our plants now considered "native" were likely not here 200 years ago. In many cases, the term "native" is used rather loosely. Particularly since "native" truly means before the European settlers came to an area. Records back in those days are for all practical purposes non-existent for most plants.

mellielong said: You're not pushing the zone envelope - you're totally ignoring the zones!

That sound pretty good:-) I like it!!

David LMO I suppose the argument is Native or Naturalized , Like us
A couple Butterflies like the Cabbage White , Are not thought to be truly native either ,
we Had , Montana Giant White , now extinct They actually existed up until about 1970 although were listed as extinct for decades before , same as the passenger Pigeon , I had the privilege and disappointment of seeing both at the end of the 1960's ,
Virginia White
Southern White ,
Should I add a bad joke about ? it is a naturalized natural deception ,

DavidLMO said:[quote="crittergarden"
Would love some native to SW PA if anyone can trade.

http://monarchwatch.org/bring-...

12 types - that is a lot.

[/quote]

Thank you!
The audubon society here pushes a pink flowered one and I am notoriously anti-pink!

OK, maybe I should say it this way:
I want the appropriate (preferably native over naturalized) milkweeds to make the proper host and food for the butterflies that will be here.

I never followed up on this but I heard a rumor we were confusing the species by growing plants that encourage them to leave eggs too far North for their babies to survive.

??????

I'd have reservations pertaining to the validity of that rumor as I believe their natural geographical range goes up into Canada.

crittergarden said:OK, maybe I should say it this way:
I want the appropriate (preferably native over naturalized) milkweeds to make the proper host and food for the butterflies that will be here.

I never followed up on this but I heard a rumor we were confusing the species by growing plants that encourage them to leave eggs too far North for their babies to survive.

??????

The biggest controversy is with Tropical MW and there are a couple of controversies. I will NOT get in that peeing contest, but would comment that I have not seen an egg in nearly 8 weeks on 7 different MW species I have. I still have tropical blooming and had a wandering Monarch on one on my deck on Saturday. In Spring, I will have new Tropical grown from seed in my basement along with 8 - 10 other varieties. The Tropical will be the first to bloom and will be the first MW blooming in my garden for early arrivals.

Yeah but "range" is wider than "nursery area"....

I'm just trying to do my best without doing any harm - and I am profoundly out of my area of expertise here!

Critter, I think that pertains to people who live along the Gulf Coast, mainly. Scientists released a study a while back showing a few things about Tropical Milkweed. First, they think in places like say, Texas, it encourages the Monarchs to stop and breed instead of continuing to migrate. That's not a problem for where I live and the Monarchs don't migrate. But, what they also showed was that Monarchs raised on Tropical Milkweed had much higher rates of the OE spore. The theory is that because Tropical Milkweed never goes dormant, the spore has a chance to just keep on going without a "break".

Now, a bunch of alarmist articles were written and a lot of hobbyist and people who had planted Tropical Milkweed got all freaked out. The best advice I've seen is for those people to simply cut their milkweed back in the winter, and keep it trimmed back to keep the Monarchs from laying eggs on it. I think this is also good for the plant because if you're not covered in aphids by this point, tell me how you're doing it! And like any plant, cutting it back helps it bush out more. We do this at MOSI pretty much every winter or when our milkweed gets too aphid-infested.

Personally, I decided to pull my Tropical Milkweed and go with natives, but that's just my decision and I wouldn't tell anyone not to plant Tropical Milkweed. Milkweed is better than no milkweed. I've had a few guests at MOSI ask and I tell them to cut it back in the winter. And if you're a hobbyist and raise Monarchs, just make sure you clean all your containers and tools so as not to spread the infection. We got it bad at MOSI one time and we soaked everything in vinegar. The lab smelled like vinegar for weeks!

In these parts, and many more I'm sure, Tropical Milkweed is about all you can find at the big box stores and most people aren't going to go out of their way to track down native milkweed - if they even know to do so! I do see A. tuberosa for sale sometimes, and I've bought the seeds at Lowe's. Other than that, you don't see other varieties (even at a lot of local nurseries) so I can't blame people for buying what they can find. But at the same time, I think gardeners and butterfly enthusiasts need to create demand for native milkweeds so the nurseries will start supplying it. Yes folks, I have an economics degree.

OK, I understand the fuss now.
Dear guru, what would you advise for me here in Pittsburgh?
I have A. tuberosa already, and I have procured some curassavica seed.
tuberosa does well outside here, and curassavica can be just one one more plant I bring in for winter and grow in my south window.

I like to take all my outdoor/indoor plants completely out of their pots in fall, wash off all the used soil (and ants, millipedes, etc.) before I bring them in the house.

What plan should I have in place to take care of this OE spore you mention?

Well, it's a naturally occurring spore so to a certain extent, you have to live with it. If you're just going to have the plants outside and let the butterflies do their thing, I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you plan on raising caterpillars indoors, then make sure you clean everything, and if you have an outbreak, I would cut your milkweed back so it produces new, "clean" leaves.

Here's more than you ever wanted to know about OE from Monarch Watch: http://www.monarchwatch.org/bi...

Thanks, mellie - that's good info to start with.
I will read the article tomorrow -