I've had some trouble with it too.

I wonder if we could have a button on the full trade list that says "show only available seeds" that would allow us to more easily sift through what is left in later stages of the swap.

I was also thinking it would be nice to have a button that shows recently-added seeds. For example, maybe there could be something that says "show me seeds added in the last ______ days" and then I could select a drop down saying 2...click the button, and it would show me everything new that has been added in the last two days.

another suggestion...

Someone came up with a good work-around manipulating the stars and deleting items from the wishlist so that the items a person hasn't claimed yet will appear toward the top...but I feel like it would be nice to not need that work-around. Can we have an option to toggle the display between a 'show all' and 'show only items I haven't placed dibs on yet' type of option? (...to work in conjunction with the aforementioned 'show only available seeds' and 'show me seeds added in the last ________ feature.')

Personally, I rather prefer keeping the stars the way I originally starred them for a couple of reasons.

Yes, I think I can do that. Not right away though.

I've noticed that I can no longer click on anything on the seed swap page (stars, treasurechest) while I'm using IE; so went to Firefox and it works.

IE is such an obsolete browser at this point, that I never test my code with it. I consider it an unsupported browser. FYI.

Okay, thought I would mention it. I know we talked about it before (with other issues) and I did get a new computer so I could upgrade. Been using my old computer again because of tech problems; need to take care of that.

Google Chrome is the browser most people use these days, and it works on older computers just fine, too.

dave said:Yes, I think I can do that. Not right away though.

As for the IE issue...

IE actually is unsupported now, from what I've heard. (I don't know how well it currently functions, though, since I've been using Firefox and Chrome--and Safari on my iPad--for years now.)

I'm using IE and it works fine with this swap. Also IE is still standard for fortune 500 companies. Like insurance company that I work for.

I only use ie for the local library site because it is the only one that works with the password system.....They don't' even have books in stock on Windows 10 because they are using Win7. They just updated this year. So am I on this computer (I don't use a touch screen or Cordata, so I don't "need" win 10) . I asked the librarian "what about kids in school and job seekers". She didn't like that question. I suggested that they stock fewer romance novels and more current science and tech texts. Life in the country has its moments.....

I use firefox for most things but use google chrome for video.

What does everyone think about a "Second Helpings" feature where, after a designated day, people can go back and claim 'seconds' on seed pack varieties they already have a 'first helping' dibs on?

That way, if someone loves a particular item and wants more of it, and no one has shown interest in the remaining packs, the person can claim another 'helping' of it.

(Maybe our seed swap could have a food theme...or is that just the Thanksgiving-time mentality talking? )

Mixed feelings, mostly in favor.

In favor:
The person requesting must really want it, to ask twice.
If no one else in that swap requested it, no one else in that swap wanted it very much.
We offered the seeds because we wanted them to go to someone who wanted them (and would probably grow them out).

Against:
The person offering the seed might prefer to let two people sample it, even if they waited for another swap to find that person. That's probably why they offered a packet small enough that someone wanted twice as much.

One variation would be to have two end dates for trading. On the first date, people who prefer could "take back" their seeds that had not already been requested and confirmed. But people who wanted to allow double-dibbsing of some of their seeds could leave in any sees they were glad to see swell someones stash.

I know that I have some hybrid seeds that are 5-10 times more expensive than other seeds of the same species. Mainly, I only have SMALL packs of those to split up! I use them and trade them more sparingly, and definitely would NOT want someone requesting 2-3 trade pkts of that rare item so they could direct-sow a longer row.

But when I have plenty of something, I really like your idea. It's easier than having someone email you asking for a bigger packet, then trying to keep records of who-wanted-more-what.

I'm conflicted, too. I don't have an argument against beyond that just because something did not "sell" early does not mean that it is not a great seed to post or use in another swap, and I often participate in several. One swap's white elephant is another swap's favorite and someone in the next group may be chomping at the bit to try that particular variety.
I think I like Rick's idea of being able to withdraw seeds that the holder thinks would be better traded elsewhere, but I also think that is adding what might be an unnecessary layer to the complexity of the swap.

>> but I also think that is adding what might be an unnecessary layer to the complexity of the swap.

Yes! Most ideas I have are subject to that criticism. "Maybe convenient for some purposes ... but not useful to everyone and more complex for everyone."

I think Dave will filter out the least useful, and hopefully the marginal or specialized ones can be invoked or turned off for different swaps.

Certainly we should strive to have some swaps each year targeted at first-time members who do NOT want to learn many rules or even how to use too many features.

Which reminds me - often I would like to show someone how to do something. Usually it's as easy as "Click HERE .... and now HERE ... then fill in that area". But doing that with screenshots pasted into JPGs, and then annotated and posted ... hard work.

Is it totally and 100% crazy to think about a way to let a new member give PC control to another member, when both were online at the same time, so the more experienced member could move the mouse around and type (or say, with a microphone) "click HERE next!".

I think we could teach a new member the most complicated imaginable swap features in nothing flat if that were possible.

But it would be asking ATP to support some kind of remote desktop, and keep it from being used behind someone's back to extract their private data and install viruses.

Perhaps some way to limit the shared functionality to driving around inside the ATP website.

Maybe all the value of that wacky idea could be had without the drawbacks if someone volunteered to make a "video" of how to use some feature, or do some site-related action like first add a plant to the database, then add one from the database to your own plant list, then add something from your plant list to a swap list, then activate it.

A video like that could be just a series of screen shots with a voice-over. Not movies of people's faces, just the ATP website and a big mouse cursor moving around and doing things while the voice-over explains.


I mention this because I read that "many" people avoided a certain manual seed swap that I thought was very simple, "because it was so complicated". Possibly they would find "add a plant to your swap list" complicated. Especially if they don't yet have any plant list of their own, or any "haves" in the Plant Database, or any experience finding things int he Plant Database.

If they saw how easy it is to just type in a common or idiomatic name from scratch once they reach their own swap list, they might not find that complicated, but I'm going to guess that we'll lose some potential traders if it takes 3 clicks to reach the swap area.

Hence there might be a "market" for something to simplify using what we might think is already very simple.

For some reason, names of screens seem not to sink in. "Just go to the Blah-Blah Screen" may be puzzling the first time for many. But if they saw a mouse pointer zoom left, hover over "Beta Swap" and then click, that doesn't puzzle anyone.

And once they SEE "that page that includes links to ALL tradelists and MY bought & sold list & ...", they will have one location they know how to work from.

There was one seed on this swap that I ended up getting two packets, but from different people. Not always would that happen, so I think if an option to mark a seed for a "second helping" might be a good idea.

Mixed feeling here also. I would not be opposed to it. There's probably a few on my pick list that I wouldn't mind having another pack of. But like Rick I think there would be some people that would not want to give away multiple packs to the same person, so they would need the option and time to remove those before allowing the second round to start.

I'm also a little conflicted on the idea of 2nd helpings of seeds... some things that I offer (tomatoes, for instance), are seeds that I have more of than I really need for the next planting season, but would use the following year if no one wanted them the first time around. Other things I do have lots of that I wouldn't mind if someone wanted extras (mini Indian corn, anyone?? ). I think the idea of being able to "retract" the unused offers or let them stay for the 2nd helpings is a good one.

As far as making the use of the swap software easier for newbies to understand, maybe Dave (or someone else, for that matter) could make a video at some point; and also, the idea of having a "spectator mode" might be helpful so people who are hesitant to jump in can get a feel for the process.

I hope that some swaps get started specifically FOR rare and precious seeds. Those swaps can test and refine mechanisms for fairness, freshness and pollen parentage.

Maybe they would even support negotiated one-on-one trades and three-way trades, or "I will make THIS available to whomever, but only if I get one of the following from someone ..."

I assume there will also be "mass market" swaps with relaxed rules and high volume, and maybe a phase for older and re-traded seeds.

Then people can join the swaps that lean toward their preferred style of trading.

My only imput on the subject of Second Helpings:

I was thinking = if I have left over packs of seeds that someone has dibbs on, I could throw an extra pack, or all of my extras in their bag. Unless, it's something that I really like and might like to keep for myself or something that I think I would like to use in another swap.

With herb seeds, some of them I actually use in cooking too, so I might rather keep those and use them in the kitchen.