I have been trying to think of a time I saw a flag in the actual sanctuary...being catholic ( but visitng lots of different denominations / churches for weddings, baptisms, deaths..) I can't remember any.

It makes sense Lyn what you have said about the funding,

gardenglory said: I believe inside the house of God, we should be able to discuss whatever we want to discuss, just like outside the house of God. People can make up their own minds where they want to go, if they dont like something. As far as telling someone how to vote, well...who wants to hear that anyway, so keep it out if you have to. jmo
If this i why they removed the flag, you would have thought, they would have just said....we removed the flag because of .... People would have actually understood that, if the case.

I was thinking same thing. They May not KNOW it tho.

The Lutheran Church I grew up in used to have the Lutheran Synod flag and the U.S. flag up next to the alter.
I have not checked for years, so I do not know if it is still there as I do not look for it.

There was a huge argument at my house with my Dad, but he was acting crazy towards me and it escalated because I kept walking away.

We are in the process of cleaning out our basement. My dad has a hoarding problem keeping old books, papers, and folders and he will get super angry if anyone so much as touches a book. We've got hundreds of books in the basement my mom told him to throw out and he refuses and hides books in my parents bedroom so my mom won't throw them out. They are outdated and my dad looks at books and tv instead of doing anything around the house to help, so me and my mom decided to get rid of the books.

My moms at work and I throw out one book and my dad has a fit screaming and cursing at me where is my book give it to me now and things like that following me around the house not leaving me alone. The book was outside in the garbage with other old books my mom put out.
I go out to get the book and my dad sees me and runs out screaming, tears open the bag of books while I'm holding the book I threw out and he persistantly screaming my name and yelling is following me outside now saying give me back my book you stole and then has an even bigger rage seeing other books thrown out, actually digging through garbage to "save" his books!

He wouldn't leave me alone and it felt like verbal abuse yelling like this in front of the neighbors that I threatened to call the cops and yelled that and all my dad said was I don't care call them you stole my book your going to jail now give me it back now or im breaking your things. So I go inside lock him out and call my mom at work and all the while he is banging on the door let me in I want my book and I said no your acting crazy and I don't trust you stop this right now or I will call a cop and he didn't stop. I got all this on our security cameras outside but no sound.
4 of my neighbors saw this and heard it and drove by didn't stop or say anything (nobody talks to us for this reason) so they saw his behavior and how he wouldn't leave me alone.

My dad always is like this and living with him I can't take it anymore but I have nowhere to go and stay at away from him for good. I've called the cops in the past on him for fights we've had and they always stick up for him, I don't know why but if they think fathers should treat their son like this over a book they shouldn't be cops.

I don't know what to do. I dont want to stay here and with all the neighbors seeing what he does to me I don't want to show my face outside ever again. But I feel I've run out of anyone to turn to.
My mom knows how he is but let's him do this to me and her because she is afraid to tell him no. She even spoke to a cop admitting my dad has hit her in the past and the cop told her "well that's not relevant to today's fight can't do anything about that".
It's very bad here

Your father had a mental problem, has it always been this way?
Try to post a picture of how bad the book problem is; what type of books are they?

I learned a long time ago that he who screams loudest does not actually win an argument EVEN if you win; let him yell but hold yours back.
Find some sort of professional help if you can , beyond police.

RpR said:Your father had a mental problem, has it always been this way?
Try to post a picture of how bad the book problem is; what type of books are they?

I learned a long time ago that he who screams loudest does not actually win an argument EVEN if you win; let him yell but hold yours back.
Find some sort of professional help if you can , beyond police.

I've run out of ideas on who to turn to. Police don't help, I've went to counselors who couldnt get through to him, my grandparents (his parents) are dead and ever since then he's become a monster. He also has high blood pressure and refuses to take pills for it so that isn't helping. He doesn't care who he hurts.

Gee Keith. I am sorry for your family dynamics and issues.
Your dad takes you places since you don't drive and so I know sometimes you two are OK together.

It sounds like you are in a pickle to find outside living and the reason is because you don't support yourself. You need to find a way to get back and forth to a job ...get something on a bus line or a train line or something. That is the key to your independence. Maybe the county voc rehab can help you if you explain your driving issues. They find jobs..they provide training, perhaps they will pay for assistance to get you comfortable on the road. I know here there have been instances where equipment was brought into the home for the person to work from home after skills training. Visually handicapped folks don't drive and they work and support themselves,

I will say that regardless of yiur dad's extreme hoarding of books...you did not have a right to throw them away in my opinion. If the papers, books, folders are a fire hazard...then let your mom takes steps to rectify it. You may find my opinion unwelcome but it is what it is.

If you are afraid to live with your dad...there may be a solution via social services.. May I ask how old you are Keith? I would not worry overmuch about what the neighbors think. Everybody has troubles and challenges and that is what people focus on. Your dad may have provided a bit of local excitement but most folks really have their own lif excitement to contain and manage.

keithp2012 said:

I've run out of ideas on who to turn to. Police don't help, I've went to counselors who couldnt get through to him, my grandparents (his parents) are dead and ever since then he's become a monster. He also has high blood pressure and refuses to take pills for it so that isn't helping. He doesn't care who he hurts.

Your father, for what ever reason is near a nervous break down, which can be violent.
I know this first hand as my father always had very high blood pressure even with pills and near forty years ago, after things piled on him, had a nervous break where at one point he beat my brother on the back so hard you could see the palm prints.
I found out as that day I came home from college and he came to me crying showing me my brother's back.

He went to a doctor but as your father may not realize that he is breaking as my dad did, be careful and DO NOT escalate, no matter how hard it is.
I know from this far away I can say do this, that or the other thing so easily but butting heads causes damage.
If you are a church goer see a pastor.
As far as the books, unless you are in true hoarder stress, I had a true hoarder aunt kicked out of her house, let him have his books for now.
An annoyance is not hoarding, books taking over living space is.
If he can hide them, that does not sound like what true hoarding is but only you know the facts.

Keith ... books are only "things". You are more important. Do not fight over things. Take care of yourself. Be kind to yourself. Let him have his things. You are not responsible for his things. You are responsible for yourself.

Yes, you need to work at finding a different living solution, but you do not have to work at solving his problems or your mother's problems. You only need to focus on how to make the changes you need to make to get you into a better situation for yourself.

I know it sounds selfish, but it is not. It's their marriage and they have to work out their own issues. It's not your job. It's hard to stay out of it, but I think you will have to deal with less personal stress if you do.

gardenglory said:Im more confused than grumpy. The church I grew up in, married in, burried parents, grandparents in, has taken the flag out of the sanctuary. I didnt really pay that much attention, it was always just there, but it was obvious when it was gone. PC in reverse, and I dont like it for some reason. I get that they want to welcome all, but I just dont see this as the way, we are in the USA after all, surely people know that :doh:. It was hardly front and center, taking away from the religious symbols. O well. Not going to stress over it.
Slipping a non grump in. I just found out someone who was about to have to get gutted in a huge surgery for liver and stomach cancer, just found out that at mayo, they can put in a stent to seperate the cancer, it is being done today, and she will be back home tonight. She will have to have chemo, but what great news after the wicked news from last week that she had it, and there was little hope.

Pam our Baptist church has both the American flag and the Christian flag on the platform. I am sorry to hear your church has removed the American flag. That is just wrong. No way are we worshiping the flag it just represents a country , many died for, that has given us the freedom to worship as we choose. Shame on your Pastor. If people are uncomfortable being around the American flag perhaps they should find another country they can support.

Linda.

quietyard said:

Pam our Baptist church has both the American flag and the Christian flag on the platform. I am sorry to hear your church has removed the American flag. That is just wrong. No way are we worshiping the flag it just represents a country , many died for, that has given us the freedom to worship as we choose. Shame on your Pastor. If people are uncomfortable being around the American flag perhaps they should find another country they can support.

too ...

drdawg said:I would call that the "Ultimate political-correctness", Pam. So sad that this is where our great nation is headed. I would not be a bit surprised that during our lifetime, we will see the "one nation, under God" removed.

The way things are going I am even more worried about the "one nation" part being removed than the "under God" part.

I honestly don't think there's any real cause-and-effect between high blood pressure and a nervous breakdown; Uncontrolled HBP can certainly lead to death by stroke or heart attack, though.

drdawg said:I would call that the "Ultimate political-correctness", Pam. So sad that this is where our great nation is headed. I would not be a bit surprised that during our lifetime, we will see the "one nation, under God" removed.

Sandy, I think all of it, not just part of it will disappear.

Where is the "holding my head in my hands" emoticon?

Weedwhacker said:more worried about the "one nation" part being removed than the "under God" part.

We are barely 'one nation' already, right now. Our country is constantly divided on so many things. neighbors fighting and killing neighbors, states bickering and arguing with other states and federal government over policies and laws. Sadly, the only time we can come together as a nation is during a time of national emergency that effects everyone. Even then, we still have some that go on protesting about how those that were tragically lost deserved it and brought it upon themselves. I'm not even middle-aged, and the world has changed so much since I've been old enough to pay attention.

(well, except with the part about not being middle-aged... )

I read the comments about my situation.

The truth is no matter how much I try I will never get along with my parents, it's too far gone between them. At this situation usually is when people move out or stay with friends or like how I felt as a teen run away, because nothing can fix the problems between us. It's hard to describe everything bad that goes on because there too much to list and explain, but there are days I wish my parents were dead, so I never have to deal with them again. That's the point I've reached. Everyday they are like totally different people and when they are upset I get the blundt of it, nobody should be a victim of this no matter the age or situation. If you want to be parents act like them, and if you don't then help me to find a way to move out instead of keeping me prisoner here to do their bidding, making me figure everything in life by myself Hasn't worked out in my favor either.

Either way I'm loosing out. If I stay with them I hate my life. If I leave I'll probably end up homeless or dead, no option is good anymore.

Keith -- what would you do if your parents really WERE dead? If you give that some serious thought it might help you find a solution to what to do now.