Name: Anthony Weeding Rosetta,Tasmania,Australia (Zone 7b) idont havemuch-but ihave everything
Today i attended a 'lilium judging course'- and i learned quite a bit, but felt very educated when i spoke of 'lilium fasciation'. Others were very interested when i spoke of some of the hideous and incredible creations that i had seen on this thread, Thank you to everyone-for the great pictures,..,
Moby: Here's a natural born fasciater--not much to look at but good study, nontheless. A standard Regal, it has fasciated every year since It came here. I have pics from about 06 or 07 thru 2011 but will show just the last 2 years which are significant. The first two pics show the plant in 2010, after it was transplanted in the fall of 2009. It had several quarter or larger size offsets still attached to the basil which I broke free and disgarded (I had considered culling the whole works, but saved the main). The third pic shows the main plant in 2011and 3 flowers on the lower left from a division. The fourth picture shows the division on the left and the main on the right and the last shows the division plant. Last fall, in 2011, I lifted it again and found both divisions clearly seperate but still attached to a common basil and each were forming several more divisions around their half moon shaped parameter basil. This time I saved both divisions and six offsets for further study. Most of us know about the factors contributing to fasciation like bulb division and how prone Regals are, but is there such thing as bulb fasciation? This plant goes nuts--both ends! And if my 'hunch' is right, all the divisions will fasciate as well.
Your regale lily is extremely interesting to me. It seems to be a very vigorous clone, being able to support such an extensive number of flowers year after year is extraordinary in itself, but still with bulbs multiplying! Would you say the individual flowers are still normal size, or smaller?
Have you tried the clone in a different soil or a different garden to see if there is a change? And it looks as though you also have normal regale lilies there, too. Is this the only clone that fasciates?
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers. - Socrates
Wow ~ that's one crazy lily! I'm really glad that you've shared your experiences here.
I'd like to see what it does in a different garden, though I suspect that it would continue its regular growth pattern. If you happen to dig bulbs again, do take pictures of them.
Where are we going, and why am I in this hand-basket?
Yep, this plant has been moved twice and continued to faciate accompanied by rapid division after those moves. As you can see, the second move in 08 or 09 was close to the brush pile--so that's where it was headed---when I had second thoughts to keep it for more observation. This latest move now in the fall of 2011 will tell us a lot more. All of the offsets were saved. The two divisions were moved into two separate gardens along with 6 offsets. The remaining 7 offsets were given to my daughter to plant and pass out to her friends so I'll have some tracking ability there too.
It is the relationship of such rapid bulb division and the seemingly inheirent faciation that intrigues me. Of course I didn't realize any of this in the beginning. It was only after I had enough history over the years that I made that association. Its not just a case of overculture or overcrowding and other Regals at reasonable proximity never faciate.
I terribly regret that I didn't take pictures of the two divisions and their many offsets last fall. Thats information lost forever now. But I was deeply involved with a very important seedling project involving about 150 plants from about 40 different crosses of named parents and that was my highest priority within that busy timeframe. But I'll be posting more pictures as I continue to track this plant.
Rick, I'd say the flowers run about 85% of normal and the height is about 10-12 inches shorter. The flowers never get to fully open being so crowded. A couple years when it was cooler and cloudier all the buds opened forming a perfect dome. The main bulb itself never gets larger than a large orange. Probably because it spends so much energy dividing. The last 2 years the buds in the very center were burned by the hot sun before they fully developed.
Moby, I knew you were building a library on Faciation, so this is good info and I'd be glad to answer any questions you have as well as try anything along the way here for experiment, etc.
Anthony, I read somewhere your Mother or Grandmother had many Regals when you were a young boy--did you ever see anything like this one? I still haven't solved the ant problem on Regal types. I tried a slurry of Terro ant powder+water on a couple but I got worried I'd be introducing a toxin into the plant so I stopped right there.
Moby, the stems are perfectly round and normal until you get to the last 2 inches where it begins to flatten, but not totally like you might think. And the leaves are all normal-- no sign of any impending fasciation until the bud head shows itself and then the final couple inches of stem start turning flatter as this whole process developes and unfolds. Yes the seeding project was very high priority to me and involves another party that I want to keep private until we have furthur discussion. But if all goes well; which I'm sure it will, I'll have many pictures to share with everyone soon.
If you notice, some pictures are taken from high above. I use a Cannon with a swivel LED, so I can reach high up, focus and then bring it back down to full frame by using just a little telephoto. So, its hard to judge overall height by the unknowing viewer/person. Just so you know.
Here's a couple more pics showing more views from directly overhead. Don'y know if this is just the main or offset but shows pedicels pretty evenly spaced around the not 'too flattened' stem juncture. Burned undeveloped buds either from hot sun or my slurry of ant killer.
Thanks so much for your info, and I look forward to you sharing your experience.
I doubt you did anything to harm those few buds, as they frequently seem to abort some that are the last to develop. Poor things were probably exhausted!
Where are we going, and why am I in this hand-basket?
I was just going to suggest the same thing: that it is more probable that the buds aborted. If they had burned from the sun, or from the ant poison, I would expect to see parts of individual buds more affected and some buds more affected than others. As Moby says, it's likely that the plant "knew" it just couldn't support any more buds to bloom.
BTW regarding Terro: if you have found in the last few years or so that it just doesn't seem to work like it used to... you're right. The company had to remove the arsenic compound from the mix (an EPA thing) that made it so good.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers. - Socrates
Yes Rick, this plant always aborts the last few buds. A couple years tho, enough (35-40) developed to form a complete dome. This last Spring we had a long cool spell here by the lake with temps in the mid-high 60s, then BAM, overnight the temps rose to the high 90s/100 with dew points around 80/84 that lasted a good two weeks. I suppose it supported all it could under the circumstances.
So thats why Terro may not work as well. Well, probably a good thing--I have a private well (pun). I Do!
Name: Anthony Weeding Rosetta,Tasmania,Australia (Zone 7b) idont havemuch-but ihave everything
Rooster, i use ant- rid[liquid] to form a circle around the tha base of the stem..1 application 4-5 days in a row, [kills the nest],,..,..My Aunty Bev had the regales- and i would not have known a fasciation[at that age]if it tripped me up!!
Make your own anticide using the active ingredient in Ant-Rid:
1. Grind and mix well equal portions (by volume) of sodium borate (aka 20 Mule-Team Borax) and plain table sugar using a mortar and pestle. I use about a teaspoon of each, storing extra in a small ziplock bag.
2. Sprinkle about 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon of the mix in a very shallow container, such as a jar lid.
3. Use a spray bottle to slightly dampen the powder; stir around a bit. You don't want it to be sloppy wet.
Thank you Connie and Anthony! This is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for concerning the ant problem--something I can make and use on a larger scale. And I have just the thing to place those lids in for outdoor station posting: the one quart shallow retangular food storage container with lid. Just drill or pound a couple nail holes on the ends near the bottom and ants should find their way in. Exactly the same setup i use for mice, voles, and chipmunk bait stations--larger container and entry hole of course. The container keeps it rainproof and keeps the birds out too!
I think I'll also try making a batch of a liquid version of the above using honey instead of sugar over mild heat. Then add a little corn starch to adjust the thickness if necessary. Us Lab boys like to experiment you know.
