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Jan 20, 2018 6:43 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
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Oh Melissa, thank you so much for my laugh for the day. That was a priceless post. Group hug
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Jan 20, 2018 6:47 PM CST
Name: Melissa Hopper
St. Helens, Or (Zone 8a)
Semp addict horse junky dog flunky
Garden Photography Critters Allowed Dog Lover Keeps Horses Hummingbirder Region: Oregon
Sempervivums Enjoys or suffers cold winters
Thank You! I tip my hat to you.
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Jan 20, 2018 7:00 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
Hope I don't have nightmares tonight? Whistling
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Jan 20, 2018 7:02 PM CST
Name: Melissa Hopper
St. Helens, Or (Zone 8a)
Semp addict horse junky dog flunky
Garden Photography Critters Allowed Dog Lover Keeps Horses Hummingbirder Region: Oregon
Sempervivums Enjoys or suffers cold winters
Little ragged offsets running amok through your dreams!! Tipping over stuff and ripping up other plants and eating them!!
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Jan 20, 2018 8:07 PM CST
Name: Mark McDonough
Massachusetts (Zone 5a)
Region: Massachusetts Enjoys or suffers cold winters Garden Procrastinator Native Plants and Wildflowers Garden Photography Foliage Fan
Birds Seed Starter Hybridizer Sempervivums
MelissaHopper said:I have read this particular thread several times and I have a couple of questions.

Why does Chick Charms feel they need to rename semps that already have names? I have been told when you don't know what a semp is you just call it a NOID so why would you change the name?

And I have to agree with the people who said they think that the originator of the plant should be consulted before this is done and that seems to me like it would just be common courtesy.

My only interpretation of renaming is so Chick Charms can claim the plant as their own.

I do have one Chick Charms plant like I mentioned before, Bing Cherry. There is no mention anywhere on the plant tag that this plant had a prior name.


Hi Melissa, all good points. I've been a vocal critic of this most unfortunate trend of slapping trademark names on pre-existing cultivars. The main criticism is that it invites unnecessary confusion, particularly with less than savvy gardening public that will have no idea about how a plant can have two names for the same plant, if they even notice the "fine print" (real cultivar name) on the back side of the label... if the plant even has the original Chick Charms label. There's no end of possibility, that any and all Sempervivum cultivars could be "harvested" via TM rebranding, and this could apply to many thousands of other popular plant groups like Hosta and Hemerocallis, what confusion and mayhem will it create.

Looking at the marketing material, such as Chick Charms Facebook announcements and ChickCharms -dot- net web site, chick charms are bold branded as NEW (in all caps), it is repeated "Chick Charms is a series of NEW and colorful, ultra zone 4 hardy, Hens & Chicks". One of the web outlets for chick charms is GardenCrossing -dot- com, there's zero information to indicate these are older pre-existing cultivars that have been rebranded. The marketing conveniently gives the complete impression these are all new hybrids.

Interestingly, one of two web store outlets listed for chick charms is GreatGardenPlants - dot- com. They have gone the opposite route, listed the semps using the true cultivar name such as: Sempervivum Reinhard
(excuse their misspelling of 'Reinhardt' and unconventional cultivar name syntax... no single quotes). Then in the product description they say "aka Chick Charms Appletini".

A third web site selling chick charms is SelectSeeds -dot- com. Again no mention the plants are merely rebranded older cultivars. Each semp listing has a great big blue dot icon stating "NEW", and has an entry "latin name: Sempervivum hyb.", does not list the true cultivar name. All a big mish-mash of naming.

Sure, the effective marketing on chick charms (although in my opinion it's overtly misleading as well) will call more attention to growing sempervivums. The big cartoon-size labels will surely entice children to want to grow these fine plants, and possibly encourage new generation of gardeners, so that's a plus.

Melissa, I am curious about the label on your chick charms Bing Cherry, that you say didn't have a true cultivar name on it, what kind of label did it have, was it a cartoon chicken?
Avatar: Jovibarba x nixonii 'Jowan'
I use #2 chicken grit to feed my hens & chicks :-)
Last edited by AntMan01 Jan 20, 2018 8:09 PM Icon for preview
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Jan 20, 2018 8:13 PM CST
Name: Mark McDonough
Massachusetts (Zone 5a)
Region: Massachusetts Enjoys or suffers cold winters Garden Procrastinator Native Plants and Wildflowers Garden Photography Foliage Fan
Birds Seed Starter Hybridizer Sempervivums
valleylynn said:Chris has some new ones that will be coming out that are originals. They will be patented plants with the Chick Charms trademark.
I'm not sure if your four last named semps in your above post are new cultivars, or old renamed ones?
Checking with Chris to see if I can get the information for:
Berry Bomb
Cosmic Candy
Cotton Candy
Silver Suede


Lynn, any progress finding out the true cultivar names on these four chick charms?
Also we need a Semp database entry for Chick Charm Key Lime Kiss = S. globiferum ssp. allionii.
Cheers
Avatar: Jovibarba x nixonii 'Jowan'
I use #2 chicken grit to feed my hens & chicks :-)
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Jan 20, 2018 9:12 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
Sempervivum arachnoideum 'Emily' is Cotton Candy
I haven't found out about the other 3 yet.
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Jan 20, 2018 9:50 PM CST
Name: Mark McDonough
Massachusetts (Zone 5a)
Region: Massachusetts Enjoys or suffers cold winters Garden Procrastinator Native Plants and Wildflowers Garden Photography Foliage Fan
Birds Seed Starter Hybridizer Sempervivums
valleylynn said:Sempervivum arachnoideum 'Emily' is Cotton Candy
I haven't found out about the other 3 yet.


Okay, I updated my list of Chick Charm equivalencies on Page 2 of this thread, thanks for the update Lynn.
Avatar: Jovibarba x nixonii 'Jowan'
I use #2 chicken grit to feed my hens & chicks :-)
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Jan 20, 2018 10:35 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
You can also search the database for Sempervivum 'Cotton Candy' and it will come up with the correct/original semp.
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Jan 20, 2018 10:55 PM CST
Name: Mark McDonough
Massachusetts (Zone 5a)
Region: Massachusetts Enjoys or suffers cold winters Garden Procrastinator Native Plants and Wildflowers Garden Photography Foliage Fan
Birds Seed Starter Hybridizer Sempervivums
valleylynn said:You can also search the database for Sempervivum 'Cotton Candy' and it will come up with the correct/original semp.


I understand perfectly Please also update Chick Charm Key Lime Kiss = S. globiferum ssp. allionii in the Sempervivum Database. Thank you.
Avatar: Jovibarba x nixonii 'Jowan'
I use #2 chicken grit to feed my hens & chicks :-)
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Jan 20, 2018 11:13 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
It's already in the database. Search Sempervivum Key Lime Kiss in the plant database.
This is what will come up:
https://garden.org/plants/sear...

Or you can search Sempervivum globiferum subsp. allionii and it will come up. Thumbs up
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Jan 20, 2018 11:17 PM CST
Name: Mark McDonough
Massachusetts (Zone 5a)
Region: Massachusetts Enjoys or suffers cold winters Garden Procrastinator Native Plants and Wildflowers Garden Photography Foliage Fan
Birds Seed Starter Hybridizer Sempervivums
valleylynn said:It's already in the database. Search Sempervivum Key Lime Kiss in the plant database.
This is what will come up:
https://garden.org/plants/sear...

Or you can search Sempervivum globiferum subsp. allionii and it will come up. Thumbs up


Just tried Key Lime Kiss, I just get the spinner ting, nothing come up for it
Avatar: Jovibarba x nixonii 'Jowan'
I use #2 chicken grit to feed my hens & chicks :-)
Last edited by AntMan01 Jan 20, 2018 11:19 PM Icon for preview
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Jan 20, 2018 11:20 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
Did you type in Sempervivum Key Lime Kiss? It comes up for me.
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Jan 20, 2018 11:23 PM CST
Name: Mark McDonough
Massachusetts (Zone 5a)
Region: Massachusetts Enjoys or suffers cold winters Garden Procrastinator Native Plants and Wildflowers Garden Photography Foliage Fan
Birds Seed Starter Hybridizer Sempervivums
valleylynn said:Did you type in Sempervivum Key Lime Kiss? It comes up for me.


Not for me, I get nada. I notice the search function here is very fast, if no entry matched, it just spins. Nothing is coming up for me, as I type Key Lime Kiss... maybe it takes a while for an entry to "propagate" through the database?
Avatar: Jovibarba x nixonii 'Jowan'
I use #2 chicken grit to feed my hens & chicks :-)
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Jan 20, 2018 11:27 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
You have to type Sempervivum Key Lime Kiss. And us the Plants Database, or the Jovibarba Database, not the Sempervivum Database.

The easiest way for the jovis is to use the Plants Database.
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Jan 20, 2018 11:38 PM CST
Name: Mark McDonough
Massachusetts (Zone 5a)
Region: Massachusetts Enjoys or suffers cold winters Garden Procrastinator Native Plants and Wildflowers Garden Photography Foliage Fan
Birds Seed Starter Hybridizer Sempervivums
valleylynn said:You have to type Sempervivum Key Lime Kiss. And us the Plants Database, or the Jovibarba Database, not the Sempervivum Database.

The easiest way for the jovis is to use the Plants Database.


Ah, this is very interesting. So based on current nomenclature, all Jovibarba species are classified as Sempervivum, this group still separates updates in Sempervivum while maintaining the separate Jovibarba database, that's confusing (and maybe worth addressing). Key Lime Kiss does come up quickly in the Jovibarba database. Is there a plan to merge the two given current nomenclature?
Avatar: Jovibarba x nixonii 'Jowan'
I use #2 chicken grit to feed my hens & chicks :-)
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Jan 20, 2018 11:41 PM CST
Name: Mark McDonough
Massachusetts (Zone 5a)
Region: Massachusetts Enjoys or suffers cold winters Garden Procrastinator Native Plants and Wildflowers Garden Photography Foliage Fan
Birds Seed Starter Hybridizer Sempervivums
AntMan01 said:

Ah, this is very interesting. So based on current nomenclature, all Jovibarba species are classified as Sempervivum, this group still separates updates in Sempervivum while maintaining the separate Jovibarba database, that's confusing (and maybe worth addressing). Key Lime Kiss does come up quickly in the Jovibarba database. Is there a plan to merge the two given current nomenclature?


After all, the Key Lime Kiss chick charm is being sold as a trademarked SEMPERVIVUM, thus the inability to find it in the Sempervivum database is a problem.
Avatar: Jovibarba x nixonii 'Jowan'
I use #2 chicken grit to feed my hens & chicks :-)
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Jan 21, 2018 11:07 AM CST
Name: Melissa Hopper
St. Helens, Or (Zone 8a)
Semp addict horse junky dog flunky
Garden Photography Critters Allowed Dog Lover Keeps Horses Hummingbirder Region: Oregon
Sempervivums Enjoys or suffers cold winters
Antman, I have to stand corrected on my Chick Charms label. It does indeed have the original name on it. Here are pictures of the front and back of the label. But it isn't real clear that this is the semp on the lable. At least it is not real clear to me.


Thumb of 2018-01-21/MelissaHopper/9f57a5
Thumb of 2018-01-21/MelissaHopper/c373b6
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Jan 21, 2018 11:25 AM CST
Name: Mark McDonough
Massachusetts (Zone 5a)
Region: Massachusetts Enjoys or suffers cold winters Garden Procrastinator Native Plants and Wildflowers Garden Photography Foliage Fan
Birds Seed Starter Hybridizer Sempervivums
MelissaHopper said:Antman, I have to stand corrected on my Chick Charms label. It does indeed have the original name on it. Here are pictures of the front and back of the label. But it isn't real clear that this is the semp on the lable. At least it is not real clear to me.


Thanks Melissa for checking. This is a good example of how the names are likely to be mixed up, or the true cultivar name is likely to be missed (real name is essentially the "small print"). What most people are likely to use is the big bold name Bing Cherry.

I don't know about what y'all do with these types of labels, they're intended for sale, not for long term durability, they fade and get brittle, they're also big and garish in a garden situation, so I discard them and use one of my own labels instead, inscribed with true cultivar name.
Avatar: Jovibarba x nixonii 'Jowan'
I use #2 chicken grit to feed my hens & chicks :-)
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Jan 21, 2018 12:36 PM CST
Name: Karen
New Mexico (Zone 8a)
Region: New Mexico Region: Arizona Region: Ukraine Cactus and Succulents Plant Identifier Plays in the sandbox
Greenhouse Bromeliad Adeniums Morning Glories Avid Green Pages Reviewer Brugmansias
I do the same thing with the tags, Mark. I have seen people get those big rings like key rings, and punch the label and slip them on. That way at least you keep them and know where they are. I used to put them into a file, but it got ridiculous very fast.
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