Adeniums forum: The cauldex is shinking and soft,leaf are growing????

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Name: Jelinda AKA jojoe Ivey
Thomson,Ga. (Zone 8a)
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jojoe
May 10, 2012 12:53 PM CST
My desert rose was left out side 6wks ago in a couple days of heavy rain.I noticed a week or 2 ago the cauldex was soft and seems to be shrinking.I have pulled it out of soil,roots aren't soft,nothing looks like it has rot.The plant has grown anew limb & produced leaves on it.I changed the potting medium to an even better draining mix of bark, horticultural charcoal,rock and tiny bit of loam.It still seems to be getting smaller without harming the leaf growth.

Any advice or thoughts on my Desert Rose are greatly appreciated !!! Group hug
A green thumb comes only as a result of the mistakes you make while learning to see things from the plants point of view!!
Name: Jim Cook
South Florida
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jimsned2
May 11, 2012 6:34 AM CST
Good Morning Jojoe; A few of mine which are planted outdoor in the ground got like that. I dug them out and just let them sit on my porch for a few days then replanted. All of them not only survived but thrived. However, if I were you I'd wait till some one who keeps them in pots reply's,they might have better instructions. I don't have a good track record with potted plants. I am curious as to if you watered them when you re-potted them? I don't; figuring they have had enough water. Melissa, what say you?

Name: Melissa E. Keyes
St. Croix, U.S. Virgin Islands
Zone 11+
Charter ATP Member
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coconut
May 11, 2012 2:11 PM CST
Sounds OK to me! A soft caudex, if it's brownish, that's the beginning of rot (shudder)

If it's kind of rubbery, it might be thirsty! If there are new leaves, it can have lots of water and food if it's actively growing. Make sure the stems are firm, and go ahead and give it a drink. How often have you watered?

Too much, and leaves get sickly looking, then start getting really yellow and dropping off, and the stems are very easy to bend. We don't want bendy stems. I am getting quicker about dumping a plant out to see what's going on indide that pot. You want the little rootlets to be white and growing. If they're wet and brown, that's too wet.

Whew. Hard to tell what to say without seeing the plant!!

Hi, Jim!!
Name: tarev
San Joaquin County, CA (Zone 9b)
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tarev
May 11, 2012 2:31 PM CST
When I first bought my Desert Rose from Walmart there was a part of the caudex that seemd brownish and a tad soft, but the rest of the plant is okay. So I continued to purchase it. I have it in a low container and in full sun in my garden and if I do water I avoid wetting that brownish side, and just go watering on the root area below. So far it has managed to bloom and is growing well. But the brownish mark stayed, seems more like a bad skin problem now for my Desert Rose.

I don't know if you can see it in this photo, on the right side there is that patch of brown on the plant, but the rest is gray green.

Thumb of 2012-05-11/tarev/bc87fd

I am thinking it may have gotten the brown patch due to incorrect watering during shipment and sale, causing that patch to show but later on dried out, so it did not proceed to eventual rotting. So maybe you need to see how the water splashes on your plant during watering. And make sure it does dry out well later.
Name: Doris Klene
Greensburg,Indiana.
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kareoke
May 12, 2012 5:24 AM CST
I have a large one that has brown on one side but I have had it since it was a seed so the brown came on natural, it has not made any difference to the plant, I will get a picture later today.
Name: Doris Klene
Greensburg,Indiana.
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kareoke
May 12, 2012 5:58 AM CST
mine with the brown almo0st looks like bark is off but it is smooth.

Thumb of 2012-05-12/kareoke/54f0af
Name: Jelinda AKA jojoe Ivey
Thomson,Ga. (Zone 8a)
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jojoe
May 12, 2012 10:25 AM CST
Here are some pictures of my plant that will help a lot i think.

As far as water,it has leaves & is growing new leaves.This was a rescue plant it looked like a very tall dead stick in a pot.It was not soft at that time.This all started while i was gone for 3 days with my daughter having her baby and the hubby left it out in a 3 day thunder storm.

I replaced the potting medium with a faster draining mix of bark, horticultural charcoal and i think the little pebbles are called arcilite with a little loam added.I didn't water it for a couple days and the leaves started dropping so i watered and the leaves grew back.I water very little enough to keep the leaves healthy.

I did pull it out of the pot yesterday and the roots aren't soft yet but it seems that the softness has started in the cauldex & is making it's way down not up!

A picture is suppose to be worth a thousand words,hopefully mine will be

Thumb of 2012-05-12/jojoe/0f575f
To get a close up i had to take 2 pictures of the plant.
Thumb of 2012-05-12/jojoe/6d7e8c

Thumb of 2012-05-12/jojoe/99c0f3
The thickest parts are soft the smaller roots aren't (yet)
Thumb of 2012-05-12/jojoe/9cdf0a

Thumb of 2012-05-12/jojoe/24bfa0


Thumb of 2012-05-12/jojoe/4286e5
Have a wonderful day & thanks for your time and advice!!!!! Group hug
A green thumb comes only as a result of the mistakes you make while learning to see things from the plants point of view!!
Name: Doris Klene
Greensburg,Indiana.
Horse,cattle owners click klenepipe
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kareoke
May 13, 2012 6:39 AM CST
I know if it were mine and it had soft spots I would use a sterilized, sharp knife and cut the sof part away, and let it dry out a few days befor replanting. I hope you don't lose it.
Name: Jelinda AKA jojoe Ivey
Thomson,Ga. (Zone 8a)
If a door closes look for a window!
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jojoe
May 13, 2012 3:39 PM CST

The problem with that is the soft part is in the middle,the roots aren't soft and above the cauldex is ok.Only the cauldex is soft & shriveling.So if i cut the soft off,the plant would be cut into 3 pieces the stalk,the roots and the soft cauldex.I don't know if there is any help for this plant except for it to just fix itself.I am preparing to have to trash it Crying and the good part of it is i can start off with a new pretty and healthy plant!!
A green thumb comes only as a result of the mistakes you make while learning to see things from the plants point of view!!
Name: Michael Hicks
Clermont, Fl
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Plumerias Orchids Tropicals
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chefmike92
May 13, 2012 5:38 PM CST
tarev said:When I first bought my Desert Rose from Walmart there was a part of the caudex that seemd brownish and a tad soft, but the rest of the plant is okay. So I continued to purchase it. I have it in a low container and in full sun in my garden and if I do water I avoid wetting that brownish side, and just go watering on the root area below. So far it has managed to bloom and is growing well. But the brownish mark stayed, seems more like a bad skin problem now for my Desert Rose.

I don't know if you can see it in this photo, on the right side there is that patch of brown on the plant, but the rest is gray green.

Thumb of 2012-05-11/tarev/bc87fd

I am thinking it may have gotten the brown patch due to incorrect watering during shipment and sale, causing that patch to show but later on dried out, so it did not proceed to eventual rotting. So maybe you need to see how the water splashes on your plant during watering. And make sure it does dry out well later.




I am no expert but UN POT it i have a few from wal-mart and first thing is un pot the thing and rinse all the potting soil off it. look for mush black. From what i see i say yours needs room to grow and breath. you will not believe the roots actually block the drain holes.

if you find mush roots like all others say very sharp knife and sterilize it between every cut!!! if you have roots that break cut them off in the same way..DONT RE-POT till any cuts have healed over you might loose a few leaves but if your cuts have not healed they will rot more when planted. Then plant in a very well draining soil. everyone has there own favorite mix. I use my potting mix(1/3 compost,1/3 great potting soil,1/3 perlite) i take that and mix it 1/3 my potting mix 1/3 small rock (ones you set paver bricks with) 1/3 coarse builder sand.i drench mine and dont water till 90% dry when they leaves start to grow again water more but NO STANDING WATER.
its goo looks like you removed the rocks they glue on top of the dirt. but there is a saucer under and some have an inner pot also they are tan here and they are smaller!! give the poor thing a bit of room not to big but i usually go 2 in taller then the roots extended and 2 in bigger around and i re-pot every 2 yrs. i have several os my caudex that get a bit soft but mushy is different. i have been known ti take a good sharp clean knife and take and poke it in to the brown part and pry a little and look in side and see if it is brown/black/white? and go from there..

hope this helps I have had to do a lot of this re potting and surgery from there. I have 10 of those bonzi pots they to me are just to small unless you un-pot and cut roots to fit pot and re-pot after heals .


mike
Name: Michael Hicks
Clermont, Fl
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Plumerias Orchids Tropicals
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chefmike92
May 13, 2012 5:53 PM CST
jojoe said:Here are some pictures of my plant that will help a lot i think.

As far as water,it has leaves & is growing new leaves.This was a rescue plant it looked like a very tall dead stick in a pot.It was not soft at that time.This all started while i was gone for 3 days with my daughter having her baby and the hubby left it out in a 3 day thunder storm.

I replaced the potting medium with a faster draining mix of bark, horticultural charcoal and i think the little pebbles are called arcilite with a little loam added.I didn't water it for a couple days and the leaves started dropping so i watered and the leaves grew back.I water very little enough to keep the leaves healthy.

I did pull it out of the pot yesterday and the roots aren't soft yet but it seems that the softness has started in the cauldex & is making it's way down not up!

A picture is suppose to be worth a thousand words,hopefully mine will be

Thumb of 2012-05-12/jojoe/0f575f
To get a close up i had to take 2 pictures of the plant.
Thumb of 2012-05-12/jojoe/6d7e8c

Thumb of 2012-05-12/jojoe/99c0f3
The thickest parts are soft the smaller roots aren't (yet)
Thumb of 2012-05-12/jojoe/9cdf0a

Thumb of 2012-05-12/jojoe/24bfa0


Thumb of 2012-05-12/jojoe/4286e5
Have a wonderful day & thanks for your time and advice!!!!! Group hug



This is complicated but i dont see to many roots. I am guessing that first had to much water or potting mix was holding to much. Now I think Melissa it right on with the plant spending so much energy the caudex is starting to dehydrate. I think you might have fixed the problem with the new potting mix and now its not getting enough water for good solid caudex and stem/leaf production. If you have very little or nothing to retain some water you need to water much more often. and your mix sounds like a little loam might be a bit skimpy. Its not bad. assuming that pot has good draining holes drench it good so i pours out for a few min. then everyday push your finger down in to you potting mix and see if you feel moisture? if you do Wait count # of days till it dries 2 in down. that tells you if it is holding any water and rot is coming or if it is just starving for water and food. I have 4 i have to water every-other day and the rest of mine are good for 3 days in cooler weather 80-85 if it is windy and it hits in the 90's im watering everyday. the plant looks overall good but i would consider an trim for nest year to promote more branching. thats just me!

hope makes sense and helps

mike

Name: Melissa E. Keyes
St. Croix, U.S. Virgin Islands
Zone 11+
Charter ATP Member
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coconut
May 14, 2012 10:22 AM CST
Jelinda---Hmm, I don't see any live-looking feeder roots on Jelinda's plant-- too much water. Rot can start in the middle of the caudex, and go both ways. It's grayish brown, usually. Cut a little slice in the middle and see if the insides are brown and watery. If so, chop chop chop up to good 'wood', bright white, not clearish whire, with a green skin. Put it in a pot with totally dry mix, maybe just perlite, put the whole shebang into an unused corner, and check in a month or two. YOUR JUDGEMENT, OK?

Next time, wash off the roots/caudex thoroughly with warm water before the photography session.

Puppy dog looks comfortable, and not interested in plants, teehee

Doris, that could be sunburn. The caudex looks like it's really happy. It's OK to water the caudex when you're watering the plant.I have lots of plants with a brown/grayish patch on the caudex, and it's from one sunny day after two weeks of cloudy rainy weather, resulting in lush caudex growth. One day of strong sun after that could make a patch of burn. Not a problem, but will be there for a long time. Like you said, a skin problem. Will gradually fade.

Hi, Jim!! Hi, Wilfred, where ever you are!
Name: Jelinda AKA jojoe Ivey
Thomson,Ga. (Zone 8a)
If a door closes look for a window!
Heucheras Plant and/or Seed Trader Hostas Hummingbirder Region: Georgia Cactus and Succulents
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jojoe
May 15, 2012 11:01 AM CST
I would like to thank everyone for all the good info!!!

As far as water,over water isn't the problem as matter of fact it would more likely be under watering!!! The soil it was in before i repotted it did have more soil in it.I thought it was getting root rot and maybe went over board with this potting medium :hearts:.It does have enough in it that it does stay damp a couple of days and when i water it drains GREAT Shrug! maybe to great Shrug! is that possible?The mix does hold moisture,i do stick a finger in & water when beginning to dry out.

The plant being a 'rescue' has always had the same amount of roots.I thought it was strange the roots didn't grow little sucker roots,being a newbie with this plant i didn't know what the roots looked like healthy.It also done fine last summer with the minimal amount of roots?? When i received it there were no limbs & the lowest one has grown since i put it out this year??? Confused

I want to double check the surgery I'm all ears! Cut the cauldex (if inside isn't healthy) up the plant until healthy material is found.Meaning i'm removing all roots & making the plant shorter?? Then stick in perlite, put away for month or so (keeping an eye on it).What about water how damp perlite doesn't hold water.I have some vermiculite would that work?If not will go get perlite,I just don't use it in potting plants don't like the look of it on top the soil every time i water more floats up. Rolling on the floor laughing

I hope everyone has a wonderful day.
A green thumb comes only as a result of the mistakes you make while learning to see things from the plants point of view!!
Name: Hetty
Sunny Naples, Florida (Zone 10a)
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Dutchlady1
May 15, 2012 11:42 AM CST
Personally I would just hang it up, rather than put in perlite. It needs to dry out and form a callous before planting it again.
Name: Melissa E. Keyes
St. Croix, U.S. Virgin Islands
Zone 11+
Charter ATP Member
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coconut
May 15, 2012 12:26 PM CST
Perlite is rather ugly, I agree on that one.

Good luck!
Name: Jelinda AKA jojoe Ivey
Thomson,Ga. (Zone 8a)
If a door closes look for a window!
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jojoe
May 16, 2012 9:05 AM CST
If i cut the cauldex up the stem to healthy material,then after it heal's i will be rooting the plant right?? Because i will have removed the roots.Are they easily rooted like this?? Confused Crying
A green thumb comes only as a result of the mistakes you make while learning to see things from the plants point of view!!
Name: JT Sessions
Milton,Fl.
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gone2seed
May 16, 2012 9:39 AM CST
[quote="tarev"]
I don't know if you can see it in this photo, on the right side there is that patch of brown on the plant, but the rest is gray green.

Thumb of 2012-05-11/tarev/bc87fd

That looks like sunburn and is nothing to worry about.We don't think about that since these are desert plants but they will sunburn especially in early spring.
Name: Jim Cook
South Florida
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jimsned2
May 16, 2012 10:39 AM CST
Jojoe, Adeniums are not quite as fragile as you seem to believe. I've many time cut a branch off rested it a few days;dipped it in root hormone and just stuck them in dirt, they've all survived until I uprooted them because I started getting into growing from see;(Darn you Wilfred Lovey dubby ) My own thoughts are that no matter how much you cut out, the plant will probably survive, maybe just missing a caudex,but if that happens you can still grow it and hand pollinate when it flowers, sow the seeds and your good to go!
Thumb of 2012-05-16/jimsned2/ce7479

Name: Jelinda AKA jojoe Ivey
Thomson,Ga. (Zone 8a)
If a door closes look for a window!
Heucheras Plant and/or Seed Trader Hostas Hummingbirder Region: Georgia Cactus and Succulents
Sedums Sempervivums Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Tropicals
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jojoe
Jun 5, 2012 10:10 AM CST
Update on my desert rose!!! not sure if it's good,bad or the same but it's different Shrug!

The cauldex i believe is beginning to firm up.After totally changing it's soil,letting it go totally dry just to give it a total soaking.It is getting new leaves,that has to be a good sign.The leaves are small but they are there.
Thumb of 2012-06-04/jojoe/4be140
there are 2 roots high on the cauldex that have always been there but never grew into the soil or done anything until now.They have both grown into the soil and are looking like they make start serving a purpose.
Thumb of 2012-06-04/jojoe/747783
Thumb of 2012-06-04/jojoe/dae8a3
the top of the plant has now started looking soft
Thumb of 2012-06-05/jojoe/14670e
you can see in the picture above when i messed with it,it was like wet card board.So now what do i do about the top?can it be cut off to make it shorter?It will remove the top two limbs but the plant is crooked and is very tall.

Thumb of 2012-06-05/jojoe/a81ebd
this is about mid way down the plant.
this plant has really been a pain Crying
A green thumb comes only as a result of the mistakes you make while learning to see things from the plants point of view!!
Name: Melissa E. Keyes
St. Croix, U.S. Virgin Islands
Zone 11+
Charter ATP Member
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coconut
Jun 5, 2012 10:17 AM CST
It's actually looking good! Just leave the messy part, don't look at it. It'll sort of heal, and in a month or two you can see if it'll peel off.

The tiny roots are feeder roots.Sometimes if I want the caudex to get bigger, I give the tiny roots a 1/2 inch layer of peat. It drys quickly enough to not cause rot.

A project plant! No pain, you know what. Don't over water, but do feed with something balanced. (Even numbers.)

OK, keep up the good work.

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