Carol as I keep thinking about my different rose beds, and their placing I definitely want my nose-close fragrant roses wherever I walk, while those blended into the distant landscape can be considered well behaved if they provide colour and overall good bush shape including autumn foliage. I do have a beyond urban sized property , where I regularly walk next to my house and other distant parts where I occasionaly go for a stroll. There are fortunately roses for each type of setting. The latter group can include some of the wilder types, ramblers or not so fragrant floribundas.
Arturo

Carol, it IS annoying to have to bend down to smell the smaller types such as Bolero. I hope this rose gets bigger for me here, but I have my doubts. Fragrance is a a must for me, but with our high BS pressure it's a struggle. Those I love best are the worst BSers. : ((

Arturo - sounds like you're living the dream!!!

Vaporvac - yes, isn't that the way!!!

Ray_Gun, I'd like to know more about Earth Angel's fragrance, so please give an update after it blooms.

I agree Mr. Lincoln is a superb rose with a superb fragrance. I have two Mr. Lincolns, one is a standard, and a bush in my cutting garden. Oklahoma is also wonderful--even slightly more fragrant, imo. A darker red, the the rose is a bit more cup-shaped. Papa Meilland is another red rose I love with more of an old rose fragrance, although to my husband, it has no scent at all And then there's Chrysler Imperial, another red rose I enjoy.

So like Jerijen said on another thread in relation to fragrance, it can be a very individual thing. And then there's temperature, time of day, etc., so the same roses may not be as fragrant depending on time of day or weather.

Sheer Bliss is one of my most fragrant HT's. but it's not a fragrance I always enjoy when it's buds are opening, at it's strongest. It's almost medicinal-like, although others in my family love it.

reh0622, I will definitely update you! ML really does it for me but it's also my very first rose. I have 4 of them planted in a bed with 8 lavender bushes and as they are all starting to bloom the scent is heavenly! I've heard good things about Oklahoma re: fragrance. I plan on putting some more red HT's in my new bed next year so I will research that one. How do the blooms hold up in the sun? ML blues quickly and, last year at least, the blooms only last a few days before the petals fall off. I'm also considering CI maybe I'll get one of each.

@Ray_Gun Oh I forgot to mention in my listing about Papa Meilland. 36 years ago I planted a group of Papa Meilland. One has a base trunk thicker than 6" in diameter. It was transplanted two years ago and rejuvenated. The last two seasons it kept blooming profusely and the fragrance is absolutely stunning. I've got two more plants of PM. I strongly recommend it. Compared to Oklahoma it has a stronger fragrance.
Arturo

@hampartsum, that is good to know, thanks! I believe Papa Meilland is a parent of Mister Lincoln? I'll have to do some research and see how he performs in my zone.

Papa Meilland, Mister Lincoln and Oklahoma are all from the same parents .... Chrysler Imperial X Charles Mallerin.

Ahhh gotcha, thanks Carol!

Ray_Gun, none of my roses hold up good in the Sacramento Valley heat mid-summer, but we had a super mild spring when they do well anyway, and come fall they do well. As far as fragrance, remembering that scent can be an individual thing, I agree with Arturo in favoring Papa Meilland over Oklahoma (and Mr. Lincoln), but here's the thing, it's a different class of fragrance, imo, and for me, Mr. Lincoln and Oklahoma are in the same exact fragrance class (and Chrysler Imperial), but OK is a bit stronger of the two.

I also love Double Delight, Fragrant Memory and Fragrant Cloud.

Speaking of fragrant roses..... I bought 6 roses from the J & P "Fragrant Collection", this year.
Mr. Lincoln, Fragrant Cloud, Soft Whisper, Double Delight, Perfume Delight and Bella Roma.
While they all smell really nice, the scent is not very strong. I have to get really close to smell them.
Does this scent typically get stronger, when these roses mature?

Thanks

@Moondog, Yes as they grow older your roses will have more fragrance. However there are other factors to consider: How do you fertilize them?. I've been reading a few days ago about types of manures of how they affect the strength of fragrance. Chicken manure improves overall scent production making roses
I copied parts of a thread at HMF under Ebb Tide:
https://www.helpmefind.com/ros...
discussion id:Discussion id : 84-216
<Yes, soil and fertilizer have a factor on the scent. A friend from alkaline clay sent me a bloom of her Munstead Wood (grafted on Dr.Huey) & fertilized with fish-emulsion. And it was intensely fragrant !! The rose park's Munstead Wood is medium scent. And my own-root Munstead Wood only has a light scent, since it's 1st year.

<Roses' scent become stronger in 2nd or 3rd year. My Tchaikosky and William Shakespeare 2000's scents were barely there in the 1st year. Then the scent becomes stronger, and fantastic as the bush gets older. Clay soil does help with scent. The rose park nearby (alkaline clay) has the best scent on many roses ... but Chicago Botanical Garden (alkaline loamy soil) has much less scent on the same roses.>

more of the same author:
Also chicken manure helps with strong scent. My friend with the best-scent ever on Munstead Wood: she raises her own chicken and fertilizes her roses with chicken manure plus fish-emulsion (for deep colors). My Pink Peace grafted has light scent for 2 years, until I used "Coop Poop" no-odor chicken manure with NPK 2-4-3, the soluble phosphorus and copper in chicken manure gave Pink Peace a good scent, but Pink Peace grafted CAN NEVER measure up to Pink-Peace as own-root.

Another person noted the same as I do: when the soil is alkaline, the fruity and myrrh scent is strong. But Grafted-on-Dr.-Huey secretes more acid, which lessen the fruity and myrrh scent. Which explains why many people, including me complain about Pink-Peace-grafted with weaker scent, but Pink Peace own-root smells wonderfully strong: fruit-loops and butter-cream frosting.

One year I dumped acid-fertilizer on Mary Magdalene and took away its fabulous myrrh scent. Plus it broke out in mildew !! After I scraped off the sulfur/acid, and watered with my pH 9 tap-water, I got the myrrh scent back.

In contrast, the Old Rose scent is stronger when the soil is more acidic, and as own-root matures, it produces more acid, thus the Old Rose scent is more noticeable in the 2nd and 3rd year. The Old Rose scent is strongest with acidic rain water, and folks in CA with alkaline-tap water don't notice much scent in Austin with old-rose scents. A friend in CA could not smell anything from The Dark Lady, but that was the best smelling rose at Chicago Botanical Garden after lots of acidic rain.>
Google "organic rose" and you'll see organic rose forum, where I posted info. on where to buy no-odor Coop-poop chicken manure, plus how to deal with blackspots. I have Heirloom as grafted on Dr. Huey and also grew Heirloom as own-root. The own-root was much healthier, but roots was too small to survive my zone 5a winter. The Heirloom grafted is only happy with fast-draining & loamy potting soil, and tend to blackspot in dense clay. For BS-prone roses like Heirloom or Double Delight (grafted-on-Dr.Huey), I need to dig down 2.5 feet for fast-drainage in acidic rain, plus supply slow-released lime to UP the pH, since Dr. Huey rootstock likes it alkaline.

My Jude as own-root was 100% healthy in fast-draining potting soil, plus frequent doses of sulfate of potash/gypsum, but B.S. when I neglected soluble fertilizer. Such wimpy roots need either super-loamy & neutral pH soil, or "spoon-fed" with potassium/calcium, which are essential for thicker leaves against fungal invasion.
Lavenderlace: you are right about sandy soil (less magnesium), thus less scent than heavy clay. Magnesium is what makes clay sticky, and it's the "glue" to hold on to the scent. Nearby CANTIGNY ROSE PARK (alkaline clay) has better scent than loamy CHICAGO BOTANICAL roses. Cantigny rose park used to be a horse stable so there's a thick accumulation of COMPOSTED horse manure over decades. Horse eat oats, and oats are high in Omega-3 fatty acids. I put horse manure in a bucket, it rained, and I saw grease floating on top !!

A friend with heavy clay in CA sent me some blooms for me to sniff. Her roses have the best scents ever !! My heavy clay with horse manure can't match the intensity of her scents ... she fertilizes her roses with chicken manure plus fish emulsion (high in Omega-3). Fatty acids (Omega-3) is needed to retain the scent. Cooks often fry spices in oil, to induce flavors in food. Factors in fragrance: humidity, trace elements in soil, amount of magnesium, and Omega-3 fatty acids. Another factor which lessen the scent is lime (calcium). There's lime (to deodorize) in fresh horse manure, and that decreased roses' scents. One time I put gypsum (calcium sulfate) and that completely took away the scent of Basyes Blueberry rose (was intensely fragrant BEFORE the gypsum application.)
Magnesium is the top factor in retaining scent, esp. the fruity scent. Magnesium UP the pH level, and the fruity scent is definitely stronger at higher pH (Mich in HMF noted this, same with me & that friend in CA). The Old rose scent is stronger at acidic pH (like rain water). The nutrients in oats are 173 mg Omega-3 and 3,781 mg of Omega-6, plus 82% phosphorus and 383 % manganese. If the horse are fed oats, then there's a high level of manganese and fatty acids.
The lime I refer to is the ADDED oyster lime by my local stable to take away the horses' urine odor in their stall. Lime is also added to bagged cow-manure to lessen the stench. That raises the pH, plus take away Old-Rose scents. I always get better scent on my roses via stinky chicken manure .. horse manure (with lime added) lessen the scent on certain roses, esp. the old-rose and clove scents.>>
Living in the countryside can give you ready access to resources many deep urbanites can find it difficult to get.
I do hope that this gives you an inkling how complex the whole aspect of fragrance is. I'm diving heads on with this for my upcoming next spring ( september down here). I really want to figure out how to enhance fragrance in my bushes. I have a very sandy soil that has an acidic ph between 5.5 and 6.

Kindly
Arturo

reh0622, Good to know. We've had a mild rainy spring here too and so far the roses seem to be hanging on longer. I'll need to snap a pic of my Lincoln bed there's a bunch opening up now. In regards to comparing for fragrance, I may just have to get one of each and find out for myself!

Moondog, I've definitely noticed my Mister Lincolns are more fragrant in this, their second year in the ground. I have them in a row on the side of my house about 10 - 12 feet from the side door and I can smell them as soon as I come outside. The fragrance is stronger in the morning.

Arturo, thanks for sharing that's really interesting how the fertilizer can impact fragrance but makes sense, you are what you eat and so are roses!

Thanks, Arturo.

My pleasure @Moondog
Arturo

The most fragrant in my garden include Mme Isaac Pereire, Fragrant Cloud, Gertrude Jeckyll, and Easy to Please, which has an intense clove fragrance.

Arturo, thank you for your post. I wonder if being south of the equater has any influence on fragrance in a way that's different being north of the equater.

Moondoggie - Is that a new Avatar picture? Was your horse always your picture, or is it new? Lovely horse!

Have been primarily growing fragrant "antique" & Old Garden roses for decades, and have had no other smell more heavenly in my Midwestern gardens than Rosa Gallica Officinalis, the specie "Apothecary Rose". Very hardy, and easy to grow, it's the only rose in my yard I can smell halfway down the block in early June. Have many that smell when you're in their vicinity, but no other that wafts through the neighborhood like this ancient rose. It's large flowered, & a heavy hip producer so it's name is well suited.